Untitled[]
Kontos, maybe?Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 09:22, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
Dub Name[]
In Dark Side Of The Sun, Marsmon's name gets dubbed to Marusumon. --CrestsofDetermination&Loyalty (talk) 03:58, July 30, 2015 (UTC)
- Arrgh, I want to resist this. This dub makes we want to revisit our naming policy to exclude "that's fucking stupid" names. Marusumon is worse than SlushAngemon or Lucemon Wild 2nd Mode. because Marusumon is just lazy, like Augumon. How did they fuck up Augumon? The Japanese katakana literally romanizes as Agumon. But, no, seriously, this dub makes me want to revisit our name policy like fuck; it's like they don't care anymore. Lanate (talk) 04:10, August 8, 2015 (UTC)
- I no longer have an objection to this. Whatever the community decides, I'll roll with. Honestly, at this point I'm open to any merge offers wikimon ever deigns to make.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 04:24, August 8, 2015 (UTC)
- Oh calm down, Marusumon is a correct romanization technically speaking. Plus having listened to it, it sounds better than you seem to think (they pronounce it ma·roo·suh·mon). Plus we have no idea why they went with Marusumon in the first place but I sincerely doubt that's a result of not caring. For all we know, Saban may not have had a choice for one reason or another but regardless Bandai/Toei still green-lit the name. Chimera-gui (talk) 04:37, August 8, 2015 (UTC)
- It's a correct romanization technically speaking, which makes it look extremely lazy, regardless of the intent. By that token, "Shautomon" is a correct romanization for "Shoutmon" but use that and you'd only be laughed at. I really do want to know what the thought process behind it went, but it's not like Mars is a completely unknown concept to English-speakers. If the problem was mythology, I'd say go with Marthmon or something. But a direct romanization just looks lazy.
- Oh calm down, Marusumon is a correct romanization technically speaking. Plus having listened to it, it sounds better than you seem to think (they pronounce it ma·roo·suh·mon). Plus we have no idea why they went with Marusumon in the first place but I sincerely doubt that's a result of not caring. For all we know, Saban may not have had a choice for one reason or another but regardless Bandai/Toei still green-lit the name. Chimera-gui (talk) 04:37, August 8, 2015 (UTC)
- So yeah, I'm enacting a fucking stupid exception to our naming policy, which means I can finally nix Puteranomon. Lanate (talk) 05:04, August 8, 2015 (UTC)
- No matter how stupid we might think a decision is we need to remember that it is Bandai/Toei who decide the names, not Saban. And while Mars is not an unknown concept to English-speakers, Marsmon could have easily been dubbed as Marshmon which may have been something that was Bandai/Toei and/or Saban wanted to avoid. Also Marthmon sounds like a surefire way to get their asses sued by Nintendo since Marth is a fairly well known name. Chimera-gui (talk) 05:17, August 8, 2015 (UTC)
- I'm not blaming Saban; I'm blaming whoever came up with it, who may or may not be Saban, as well as everyone who approved it while having a chance to change it. Just because it's an officially sanctioned name doesn't mean it can't be stupid. Lanate (talk) 05:23, August 8, 2015 (UTC)
- You want to make a so-called "that's stupid" naming policy, fine. But you better change Centalmon to "Centaurmon" when you do it. And please remember that the name "Tailmon" exists before you go ridiculing English names. Chimera-gui (talk) 05:29, August 8, 2015 (UTC)
- Yeah, it's a hotbed of hypocrisy, I know that, since I'm just about to qualify that I'm not going to change well-established dub ones. And I'm not denying that stupid Japanese names exist (we have freaking Picklemon). Another thing that gets about a lot of these names is that we have already have perfectly valid dub names for them; Marsmon has already appeared in English; Toei vs Bandai differences, I know, but there could be a little more love and/or fidelity involved. Lanate (talk) 05:38, August 8, 2015 (UTC)
- You want to make a so-called "that's stupid" naming policy, fine. But you better change Centalmon to "Centaurmon" when you do it. And please remember that the name "Tailmon" exists before you go ridiculing English names. Chimera-gui (talk) 05:29, August 8, 2015 (UTC)
- I'm not blaming Saban; I'm blaming whoever came up with it, who may or may not be Saban, as well as everyone who approved it while having a chance to change it. Just because it's an officially sanctioned name doesn't mean it can't be stupid. Lanate (talk) 05:23, August 8, 2015 (UTC)
- No matter how stupid we might think a decision is we need to remember that it is Bandai/Toei who decide the names, not Saban. And while Mars is not an unknown concept to English-speakers, Marsmon could have easily been dubbed as Marshmon which may have been something that was Bandai/Toei and/or Saban wanted to avoid. Also Marthmon sounds like a surefire way to get their asses sued by Nintendo since Marth is a fairly well known name. Chimera-gui (talk) 05:17, August 8, 2015 (UTC)
- So yeah, I'm enacting a fucking stupid exception to our naming policy, which means I can finally nix Puteranomon. Lanate (talk) 05:04, August 8, 2015 (UTC)
- I just want to add that the name may have been chosen by people who don't speak English and may have used general romanization rules without knowing how it sounds like to an English-speaker, or not caring how it sounds in English. Some time ago, when I was researching the transliteration of Russian to Japanese, for Niko's article, I run into a text that was talking about the large use of English by Japanese people, and it mentioned some words having a different meaning of what they have in actual English. If I remember correctly, they use "stove" to refer to an oven. I think the article said something about possible confusion by American people or something, but I definitely remember that the article quoted a linguist saying "We don't care what Americans think of that" or "It doesn't matter what Americans think".
- Also, Japan is among the worst countries in English fluency in the entire world. If I remember correctly, it has the 4th worst country losing only to Afghanistan and other two Middle Eastern countries. Japanese children also have low grades in English because they don't understand why they have to learn English or why/how it'll be useful in the future, and basically refuse to learn, which, honestly, is something I went through with Chemistry.
- So, Japan is a society that not only refuses to learn proper English and uses English words anyway, but also doesn't care about what Enlgish-speakers think of how they use English. Also, according to that text I mentioned, being too fluent in English is seen as a threat, and Japanese children who come back to Japan after living many years abroad are sent to special schools that basically teach them how to be more Japanese.
- I must note, though, that I think that text was written in the 90's, so I don't know how much things have changed in the 20 years, but given that Japan is not known to be a country that changes things easily, I doubt the situation nowadays is any different from the time the paper was written. If you want I can search the paper and link it here. Anime... PAAWAA!!! 13:21, August 8, 2015 (UTC)
- Marusumon is taken from the Bandai of Asia dub choices. I...I so highly doubt that a name greenlit for English-language by Bandai of Japan and Bandai of Asia has a meaningful English-literate reason behind it. It's depressing that for whatever reason, Bandai/Toei choose to overrule fluent English speakers on what the English names should be, but it's a plain fact that, as far as Xros Wars is concerned, it's definitely not just forgetting like in the original anime -- it's straight up illiteracy.
- As far as nixing names -- would we be amenable to something like "first localized use"? The balance has definitely shifted in favor of Bandai of America for those -- yeah, we'll have Creepymon, but at least that's a word.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 18:51, August 8, 2015 (UTC)
- Creepymon might be a word but it's also contradictory to established canon of Daemon. This would also bring back Darkmon for Devimon which, in addition to being contradictory to established canon, creates a conflict with D'Arcmon whose name was pronounced as "Darkmon" in Frontier. Chimera-gui (talk) 19:10, August 8, 2015 (UTC)
- I was thinking more of most common dubbed name, with ties being essentially which ever one has the most fidelity to the Japanese. Lanate (talk) 21:20, August 8, 2015 (UTC)
- Not sure what you mean about "established canon", and we already deal with name conflicts all the time. I'm also good with Lanate's proposal, at this point, although it will mean that we have to be very precise about following naming standards within synopsis sections -- a lot of the time, we don't use the exact name the material did.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 00:28, August 9, 2015 (UTC)
- I mean that the anime dubs and localized games used Daemon and Devimon. Chimera-gui (talk) 00:50, August 9, 2015 (UTC)
- The localized games use Creepymon, but my whole point is that we have the option of going with either the first localized names (so, yes, Creepymon and Darkmon), the most common localized names (overall saner but harder to count), or continue to strap ourselves to a policy that worked well at first but has been defeated by the complete lack of fucks given by the team in charge of Fusion localization decisions.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 01:56, August 9, 2015 (UTC)
- I mean that the anime dubs and localized games used Daemon and Devimon. Chimera-gui (talk) 00:50, August 9, 2015 (UTC)
- Creepymon might be a word but it's also contradictory to established canon of Daemon. This would also bring back Darkmon for Devimon which, in addition to being contradictory to established canon, creates a conflict with D'Arcmon whose name was pronounced as "Darkmon" in Frontier. Chimera-gui (talk) 19:10, August 8, 2015 (UTC)
- As far as nixing names -- would we be amenable to something like "first localized use"? The balance has definitely shifted in favor of Bandai of America for those -- yeah, we'll have Creepymon, but at least that's a word.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 18:51, August 8, 2015 (UTC)
- Marusumon is taken from the Bandai of Asia dub choices. I...I so highly doubt that a name greenlit for English-language by Bandai of Japan and Bandai of Asia has a meaningful English-literate reason behind it. It's depressing that for whatever reason, Bandai/Toei choose to overrule fluent English speakers on what the English names should be, but it's a plain fact that, as far as Xros Wars is concerned, it's definitely not just forgetting like in the original anime -- it's straight up illiteracy.
- I want to bring a thing. Marsmon's debut was in Digimon World 3, which was released in USA before Japan. Do we want to do anything with this info in regards to the name? Anime... PAAWAA!!! 12:56, August 16, 2015 (UTC)
- I dunno; I think it's fine as is. This may be getting a little too far in speculation, but is it an Japanese game that got localized into English, English game localized into Japanese, or just an instance of parallel development that meant it was better to release in English first? Lanate (talk) 02:32, August 17, 2015 (UTC)
- By the cerdits there's no doubt this is a Japanese game, and simply released first in the USA (one month before Japan) like, er... only Rumble Roses comes to my mind, but I'm sure this happens to many games. But I was suggesting that we could say that "Marsmon" was published/released before "マルスモン" and use it as an excuse to keep the page's name as Marsmon without having to come up with a way to change the naming rules that neither gives us Teddymon and Darkmon, nor gives us Creepymon, nor is case-by-case or otherwise arbitrary. Anime... PAAWAA!!! 02:50, August 17, 2015 (UTC)/23:50, August 16, 2015 (Brasília)
- I dunno; I think it's fine as is. This may be getting a little too far in speculation, but is it an Japanese game that got localized into English, English game localized into Japanese, or just an instance of parallel development that meant it was better to release in English first? Lanate (talk) 02:32, August 17, 2015 (UTC)