Talk: Digivolution References

Wow

You got it all while I was still looking for the backup of my digivolution document.

If you want, I can still handle the games, cards, and anything you might be missing.KrytenKoro 04:30, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

"Paired Devices" is actually a slight mistranslation - the kanji can be translated either as "Anti-god Devices" or "Twin Sacred Devices". While they do come in a pair, the manga emphasizes their nature as Anti-God (as in, Anti-Yggdrasil) Devices, and doesn't really place that much importance on them being used together - for example, VictoryGreymon starts to work before Z'dGarurumon does, showing that they can work separately. Its almost definitely intended to be a pun, but the primary meaning is that of being "Anti-god".KrytenKoro 04:58, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

I use Digital Starlight for my translations; I don't actually know Japanese, so I can't tell. You can change it if you want. Lanate 03:53, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Data Squad

I may have been wrong, since I haven't completed the game, but each of the children I saw exhibited the sin to some degree, like in the anime.KrytenKoro 03:48, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

They all exhibited the sin except for Yuma, and I think that's solely because of her age... It would be disturbing for a child to have lustful tendencies... I'll leave them there, if nothing else because it would make sense. Just leave it as person, as Nitta's not a child. Lanate 03:53, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Ah. I've only beaten one of them so far (Belphemon), and seen cutscenes for one or two others (I think it was Beelzemon and Leviamon?). I've really gotten sidetracked by Dusk, as its much less aggravating to play (I currently have a whole page document listing what I need to do with the Digimon in my farm to get new Digivolutions - my ShineGreymon Ruin Mode has about thirty steps to get to Burst Mode, involving getting things like Paladin Mode and Chibomon along the way).

Oh, by the way, I'm going to spend part of tonight uploading most of my Dusk notes - I've drawn rough, usable maps for most of the levels, and keep some track of the species mission stories and items (though not rewards, sorry). Should I also be uploading the Gallery profiles? Do we want to actually have those up, as a resource?

By the way, do you have Dawn, or Dusk? My girlfriend recenty saw a sale at Gamestop and got one, but she forgot which one I had, so we both have Dusk now. Any chance we could do egg-matching or even trading, if you live anywhere near Indy?KrytenKoro 05:23, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Dawn/Dusk rival evolutions

Do we want to include these as "observed"? Is there any other tamers that have their team progression shown?Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 05:30, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

The only thing to take from it is Lilamon > Lotosmon. Count as observed, I guess. Lanate (talk) 02:34, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Starter degeneration

I still want to check these, so I'll get back to you when I've confirmed them.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 05:30, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Actually, can I make an argument for starter degeneration? Your starters come pre-digivolved with their own digivolution lines, so couldn't that, theoretically make them canon? And, if you won't but that, can we break the warps and say that, when they degenerated, it's implied they went through the intermediate forms? Or would that be stretching it? Lanate (talk) 03:25, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean for the first, but the starters do have branching intermediate digivolutions, and it's possible to DNA your way up and down those chains. While it's pretty clear, just to be safe I would suggest just doing what is shown.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 10:34, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

Cards

Okay, I've gone through all the program cards for Hyper Coliseum except for Booster 25 and 26, and all the Battle Terminal cards.

I can't be sure if I've done all the HC promos, so if anyone knows of promos not on the Digimon Card Menu, please tell me. Also, while I spotted one or two, I wasn't particularly looking through the Digimon cards for cards that displayed evolutions, like the promo Growlmon that has WarGrowlmon in the background. If anyone knows of any more of these, please tell me.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 03:38, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Question - on the D-Tector cards, complete evolution lines are posted on the rookies, and higher forms often say "gain x points for digivolving from this Digimon". Should these be included?Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 03:40, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

If you want. To be honest, they're probably all digivolutions covered in the upper areas, but you can still add them if you have the time. Lanate (talk) 04:17, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Welp, I took this as an opportunity to save scans of all the available cards. I've gotten through all of them at the terminal except for the Alpha cards. Needless to say, there wasn't much profit out of it, as I only got a few usable refs on the Battle Terminal cards. Well, at least I have a stockpile for when we get the card wiki started, though it would take me a year to do.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 10:39, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, maybe, once I've got nearly all of them downloaded and organized, I could set them up as a zip file, and then have a special "You can help!" section with a link to the download, and instructions on how to name and categorize them. Farm it out a little, y'know?Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 10:41, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I've gone through all the cards except for alpha and Hyper Coliseum 25 and 26, which I can't find scans for. Once I'm done with this, I'll look into getting permission from Card Terminal to use their scans, and then start setting up a zip file so we can let people download these on their own.

Hey Lanate, if you still have those scans from Vandemon's page, would you be able to add them to the zip file?Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 04:16, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

"Battle Tactics" cards?

Has anyone ever heard of these before? Apparently they're real.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 13:10, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Other errata

※?? Dexlution? Blast Evolution?

From Shiroi Hane

<ref>{{cite book|title=Digimon Visual Dictionary|year=2002|publisher=Futubasha|language=Japanese|isbn=4-575-16353-8|quote=パオモンが進化した幼年期デジモン。}}</ref> is a source for most of the Tamers digivolutions not shown in the show, like Kiimon or in this case, Paomon. It also explains that Wendigomon is not Lopmon's true champion, but I forget exactly what the wording was.

To integrate

Digimon Frontier

• Pagumon>Raremon
• Candlemon>Wizardmon
• Mushroomon>Woodmon
• Woodmon>Cherrymon (D)
• Grumblemon>Gigasmon
• ToyAgumon/ShadowToyAgumon
• Monzaemon/WaruMonzaemon
• Tsunomon>Gabumon
• Lobomon/KendoGarurumon
• Lobomon+KendoGarurumon>Beowulfmon
• Beowulfmon>MagnaGarurumon
• EmperorGreymon+MagnaGarurumon>Susanoomon
• Flamemon>Agunimon
• Agunimon/BurningGreymon
• Agunimon+BurningGreymon>Aldamon
• Aldamon>EmperorGreymon
• Kotemon>Dinohumon
• Bearmon>Grizzmon
• D'Arcmon/HippoGryphmon>Murmuxmon
• Arbormon/Petaldramon
• Beetlemon/MetalKabuterimon
• Ranamon/Calmaramon
• Kazemon/Zephyrmon
• Kumamon/KorIkkakumon
• TorikaraBallmon>?>Burgermon/EbiBurgermon>Burgermon Champion
• Mercuremon/Sakkakumon
• Mercuremon>ShadowSeraphimon
• ShadowBeetlemon/ShadowMetalKabuterimon
• Patamon>?>?>Seraphimon
• Duskmon/Velgemon
• Loewemon/JagerLoewemon
• Conomon>?>Lopmon>?>?>Cherubimon
• Cherubimon/Cherubimon (Virus)
• Gotsumon>Meteormon
• YukimiBotamon>?>Salamon>?>?>Ophanimon
• Lucemon>?>Lucemon Chaos Mode
• Lucemon Chaos Mode>Lucemon Satan Mode+Lucemon Larva

• Shamamon>BurningGreymon

Digimon Data Squad

• Agumon (New)>GeoGreymon
• Lalamon>Sunflowmon
• Kunemon>Flymon
• Gaomon>Gaogamon
• DemiMeramon>Meramon
• Drimogemon>Digmon
• Elecmon>Garurumon (Black)
• Keramon>Kurisarimon
• Puwamon>Biyomon
• Biyomon>Aquilamon
• Aquilamon>Garudamon
• GeoGreymon>RizeGreymon
• Falcomon>Peckmon
• Gaogamon>MachGaogamon
• Budmon>Lalamon
• Sunflowmon>Lilamon
• Kamemon>Gawappamon
• PawnChessmon (Black)>KnightChessmon (Black)
• PawnChessmon (White)>KnightChessmon (White)

Comments

I was hesitant to include the D'arcmon/HippoGryphmon>Murmuxmon because of Bokomon's statement that he can assume any form (which I took to mean that he merely warped his image into D'arcmon and HippoGryphmon rather than actually digivolved. Lanate (talk) 12:01, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't remember that statement, what scene was it? Wouldn't he just turn into Onismon in that case, to save the trouble?Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 17:07, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

...beacuse there are limits to what he can transform into? I was working off of WPP's translation, and it was the one right after Murmuxmon appeared and Bokomon was introducing him.

Oh, by the way, I moved into my dorm and I didn't get a chance to copy the digimon stuff onto my external hard drive, so I'm without access to all of my anime/manga. Basically, anything I can't do from online sources I won't be able to. Lanate (talk) 03:30, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

According to the WPP sub, HippogGryphomon clearly says "HippoGryphomon, Slide Evolution! D'Arcmon"

Okay, now keep in mind I'm not fluent in speaking Japanese, but as far as I can tell, what WPP translates as "any" is あれは魔導で色な"Digimon blah blah, which means "By magic he can change into various digimon". I definitely did not hear him say "いずれか", which is what is usually used to mean "any". So, what it sounds like to me is that he's telling us what we already know - Murmuxmon can "digivolve" to other Digimon, specifically d'Arcmon and HippoGryphomon.

I lost all my meticulously organized manga scans too, and most of my recent translations and documents, so I'm working on replacing those as well.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 04:14, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Of course in the english dub, they use "any" as well, so I guess I'm wrong and he can turn into any Digimon. However, he does use a "Slide Evolution" to d'Arcmon, and Slide Evolutions in Frontier seem to be pretty much whatever you have the data for anyway (conceivably, Agunimon could slide to Gigasmon, and Mercuremon slides to ShadowSeraphimon), so I think he has the same deal going on there.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 04:30, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

By the way, I found the card that was displayed in "Guilmon comes alive", and added it to the card list, since it's a card and all. I'm still not sure how I missed it in the first place.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 10:00, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Racing

http://www.bandaigames.channel.or.jp/list/digimon_r/racers.html

New Posibilities

I really really want to put the following digivolutions:

• Monmon > Hookmon > Armormon > Cannondramon
• Kotemon > Dinohumon > Kyukimon > GuardiAngemon
• Bearmon > Grizzmon > GrapLeomon > Marsmon

But I know I can't justify them save for an argument on how they're obtained (they're the only ones obtained by leveling up the Rookie), but it would do so many things to do this and break a bunch of warps.

Also, for Digimon Frontier: Island of Lost Digimon

• Kotemon > Dinohumon
• Bearmon > Grizzlymon

by reason of sibling relationship. Lanate (talk) 02:34, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Digital Monster D-Project (based on Post-Game battles)

• Koromon >> MetalGreymon
• Agumon >> WarGreymon
• Minomon >> Stingmon
• Wormmon >> Dinobeemon
• Tokomon >> Angemon
• Patamon >> MagnaAngemon
• Nyaromon >> RedVeedramon
• Elecmon >> Zhuqiaomon
• Elecmon >> Ebonwumon
• Veemon >> ExVeemon
• Nyaromon >> Angewomon
• Salamon > Gatomon
• Bukamon >> MarineAngemon
• Syakomon >> Whamon
• Pokomon >> Taomon
• Tsunomon >> WereGarurumon
• Gabumon >> MetalGarurumon
• Gigimon > Guilmon > Growlmon
• Gummimon >> Gargomon
• Terriermon >> BlackMegaGargomon
• Pagumon >> Diaboromon
• DemiMeramon >> Arukenimon

Of course, if we want count it like a V-Pet and do from Baby up until divergence... The scary thing is that a lot of the latter digivolutions make sense.

• Botamon > Koromon > Agumon > Greymon
• Punimon > Tsunomon > Gabumon > Garurumon
• Chibomon > Demiveemon > Veemon > ExVeemon
• Leafmon > Minomon > Wormmon > Stingmon
• Poyomon > Tokomon > Patamon > Angemon
• YukimiBotamon > Nyaromon > Salamon > Gatomon
• Jarimon > Gigimon > Guilmon > Growlmon
• Reremon > Pokomon > Renamon > Kyubimon
• Conomon > Gummimon > Terriermon > Gargomon
• Zurumon > Pagumon > DemiDevimon > Devimon
• Mokumon > DemiMeramon > Impmon > Devidramon
• Nyokimon > Yokomon > Kunemon > Airdramon
• Nyaromon > Elecmon > RedVeedramon
• Pichimon > Bukamon > Syakomon > Dolphmon Lanate (talk) 02:51, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Just putting it out there.

So... any thoughts? Lanate (talk) 03:38, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Especially because those digivolution lines are a major part of the plot (I think), I would almost suggest using the entire lines. However, from what I've read about the gameplay, the "lines" are more of a DNA type of thing - any Digimon can get it's next level equivalent in the Wormmon line with enough forest DNA. Do any of us actually have the game to check how much of the digivolution is story-related, and how much of it is V-Pet based?Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 10:26, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

So, Lanate, your decision: Are we doing D-Project or not?Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 14:28, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

Nope. I've gotten no further on deciphering the game, so I'd rather err on the side of caution. I can come back to it in the future when I actually finish playing through the game (I'm focusing on Brave Tamer atm), but I'd rather not. Lanate (talk) 18:58, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

I vote for including the main lines from DW3. I mean, the only player input for these is leveling up the Digimon, like in Masters, so I think we should list these. Anime... PAAWAA!!! 09:57, January 15, 2013 (UTC)

What are the requirements for evolving along side paths? We have really loosened our requirements for viable cites since we first made this policy, so I think DW3 might be acceptable...however, I've not played it, so I don't really know how it works. Then again, would this really add any cites beside the Monmon line?Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 23:28, January 15, 2013 (UTC)

Farm Mission claimed evolutions

How would I go about fleshing this out? Lanate (talk) 05:28, October 22, 2009 (UTC)

World

On Digimon World section, it says "None?"

I take it that means that it just needs a list of all the possible Digivolutions in that game that the player can raise, right? If so, then I should be able to lend a hand. P.S. I'm not a newbie at Wikia, just the Digimon Wiki. King Nothing _{Speak now, vermin!} 18:49, February 24, 2010 (UTC)

If I remember correctly, the Digivolutions that you can force in a game don't count. If you did something to make a Digimon evolve, then it doesn't count. In Digimon World, if trained correctly, you could turn and Elecmon into an Angemon; obviously, this isn't cannon. I think the idea behind the "None?" indicates that there are no actual Digivolutions in-game, other than those that the player can influence on his partner. No cut-scenes or in-game renderings have any other Digimon evolving, unless you count the De-Digivolution of Machinedramon into a Rookie form after he's been beaten. Mbjones90 19:52, February 24, 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. This list isn't supposed to become a full list of every digivolution possible throughout the series, which would be largely uninformative, and anyways, redundant to wikimon. The stated policy is to only cover the story-based evolutions.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 00:15, February 25, 2010 (UTC)

Fair enough, just wasn't sure what was meant, that's all. King Nothing _{Speak now, vermin!} 13:10, February 25, 2010 (UTC)

Digimon Battle

Okay, what's our position on these?

They're pretty much all straight lines, but it's (1) a Korean game (is it officially licensed?), and (2) it is technically video-game forced.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 03:49, March 19, 2010 (UTC)

The only really weird ones we got, though, are

• Rapidmon (Armor) > Raijinmon
• Cyberdramon > Fujinmon
• Zurumon > Elecmon/Bearmon
• GrapLeomon > DinoTigermon (but it's the X version of SaberLeomon, so...)
• Impmon > Devimon
• SkullSatamon > Beelzemon
• Lopmon > Prairiemon (though it fits the Deva from Armor bit)
• Monodramon > Devidramon
• Kotemon > Musyamon
• Phantomon > Dynasmon
• Stingmon > JewelBeemon > GranKuwagamon

I think that, at the very least, we can take the General Digivolutions. Would it count as forced if you don't really have to do anything to obtain them? I mean, while you unlock them at the higher levels, the General Digivolution path is already set out from Rookie onward. It won't let you digivolve them, but you can see the portraits and what you will obtain right off the bat. Yeah, I'm mainly doing this 'cause it breaks a bunch of warps. Lanate (talk) 05:48, March 19, 2010 (UTC)

Plus, you don't even get to choose to digivolve. It's automatic when you level up. I'm saying "Go" on this.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 17:07, March 19, 2010 (UTC)

Anyone object to me adding the "Special" Digivolutions here? They're just like General ones, except you have to have the "Special" version of the Digimon. I don't think the Card ones or the Armors count, as they're forced. Lanate (talk) 04:43, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

Yeppers.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 06:12, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

I don't understand what the "Special" version of a Digimon is...is it like the different versions of Zurumon, Pagumon, etc.?

Also:

• Cite for Dorugoramon - is it a special for Dorugreymon line?
• Digimon bible lists two lines for agumon and gabumon?
• Is Tanemon rental a Mutant event, or an update to something else? Is Omnimon an event, or an update?
• We need to find the qualifiers for the Zurumon, Pagumon, Kapurimon revisions.

Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 20:54, January 13, 2011 (UTC)

I don't either, not anymore. Originally, it was kinda pushed as sort of like a special Event, but I can't tell the difference from regular Card evo...

The Dorumon's normal line is Dorimon > Dorumon > DexDorugamon > DexDoruGreymon > DexDorugoramon. Cards just modify them to like, what-could-have-beens.

Tanemon rental's a Mutant Event. Omnimon, I understood to be an event that hasn't ended.

I don't have Digimon Battle loaded anymore, but I could check like next week.

Lanate (talk) 21:09, January 13, 2011 (UTC)

DigiXros

• Shoutmon X3 (Incomplete) - do we want to consider this a separate Digimon?
• MailBirdramon (+ Golemon) - Uses MailBirdramon's Trident Tail, yet it is clearly a DigiXros. How do we deal with this?
• Starmon/Pickmon DigiXroses - Should they each get their own page, or be grouped on the Pickmons page (Starmon is not in all of them). Also, do we want to try and split the Pickmon's by color, or continue grouping them together? Is there any source to do so?
• Also, we still have to deal with the manga, and its Mushed-Up MachLeomon and ScudMissimon.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 22:47, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
  • Shoutmon X3 (Incomplete) - No; link mask to Shoutmon X3 with a footnote or something.
  • MailBirdramon (+ Golemon) - Ignore it for now; if there's no card or supplementary clarification eventually, slap it with an unofficial name ala "Agumon Burst Mode". I don't think we should have any misinformation spread at the moment, so if it doesn't have an official source name, quotation marks around it please.
  • Shove all of the Starmon/Pickmon DigiXroses on the Pickmon page. Don't separate them by colors yet, but mention it in the bio somewhere.
  • Yeah, we do on the manga count. I can get them. Lanate (talk) 02:43, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

Can you ask THB to modify the digivolution template to allow changes in names? That would solve the various problems with Xros Wars, like these, Pickmons, and the Armed MadLeomon components. Also, do we want to specify the amount of Digimon going into a jogress/Xros, if there are more than one of each? The Kuramon/Chrysalimon evolutions in previous seasons are the only other examples of this, I think.

Well, MailBirdramon + Golemon is absolutely some kind of evolution, so we have to mention it for that parameter. I think that making it clear the name is unofficial, as you said with Agumon Burst Mode, would be best (Honestly, though, Agumon Burst never seemed to be a separate Digimon to me).

Ainz separated the Pickmons image, so we can do that, and modify the Starmons (Xros Wars) page to use the separated images, if you want (since we now have an image for each of the four types of member). I'll perform the merge after I catch up on the episodes.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 01:02, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

SDT and DXA

All the DigiXroses for these are listed on the card backs, which are happily difficult to find.

EX: http://i.imgur.com/dcPho.jpg

We need to start an archive for these or something.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 21:30, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

Digimon World 3 (Digimon World 2003)

I'm pretty sure that the rookie-ultimate shift that comes from Digimon World 3 is viable to cite. Unless I'm wrong, the only time that occurs is when they Blast Digivolve and I've seen Growlmon go to SkullGreymon that way. --Armored Arzan 01:26, April 24, 2011 (UTC)

Digimon X Arena

I just found out that the Carddas site lists these. As far as I can tell, all valid Xroses are listed here, though there is probably a fair amount of lag from the time of a release to an update.

If you can find any Xroses that appear on card backs but not here, I'd appreciate it. Otherwise, I think using these would be more efficient and standardizable than trying to find card back scans.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 06:39, May 28, 2011 (UTC)

Part 1 DigiXros Unit

Shoutmon (+ Star Sword)

• Shoutmon + Starmons

Shoutmon X2

• Shoutmon + Ballistamon

Shoutmon X3

• Shoutmon + Ballistamon + Dorulumon
• Shoutmon X2 + Dorulumon

Shoutmon X4

• Shoutmon (+ Star Sword) + Ballistamon + Dorulumon
• Shoutmon X2 + Dorulumon + Starmons
• Shoutmon X3 + Starmons

Metal Greymon

• Greymon + Mail Birdramon

Part 2 DigiXros Unit

Shoutmon X4B

• Shoutmon X3 + Starmons + Beelzebumon
• Shoutmon X4 + Beelzebumon

MetalGreymon (+ Cyber Launcher)

• Greymon + Cyberdramon + Mail Birdramon
• Metal Greymon + Cyberdramon

Part 3 DigiXros Unit

Shoutmon X5

• Shoutmon X3 + Starmon + Sparrowmon
• Shoutmon X4 + Sparrowmon

Dark Knightmon

• Skull Knightmon + Deadly Axemon

Decker Greymon

• Mail Birdramon + Greymon + Deckerdramon
• Metal Greymon + Deckerdramon

Omegamon

• War Greymon + Metal Garurumon

Part 4 DigiXros Unit

Shoutmon X4S

• Shoutmon X4 + Spadamon
• Shoutmon X3 + Starmons + Spadamon

Shoutmon X3GM

• Shoutmon X3 + Metal Greymon
• Shoutmon X2 + Dorulumon + Metal Greymon
• Shoutmon X3 + Greymon + Mail Birdramon

Shoutmon X3SD

• Shoutmon X3 + Dark Knightmon
• Shoutmon X3 + Skull Knightmon + Deadly Axemon
• Shoutmon X2 + Dorulumon + Dark Knightmon

Grey Knightsmon

• Dark Knightmon + Metal Greymon
• Metal Greymon + Skull Knightmon + Deadly Axemon
• Dark Knightmon + Greymon + Mail Birdramon

Khaosmon

• Darkdramon + Bantyo Liomon

Part 5 DigiXros Unit

Shoutmon DX

• Omega Shoutmon + Zeek Greymon

Shoutmon X5B

• Shoutmon X4B + Sparrowmon
• Shoutmon X5 + Beelzebumon
• Shoutmon X4 + Sparrowmon + Beelzebumon

Shoutmon X5S

• Shoutmon X5 + Spadamon
• Shoutmon X4S + Sparrowmon
• Shoutmon X4 + Spadamon + Sparrowmon

Musou Knightmon

• Dark Knightmon + Tuwarmon
• Skull Knightmon + Deadly Axemon + Tuwarmon

Hi-Vision Monitamon

• Monitamon + Monitamon + Monitamon

BlueMeramon/SkullMeramon

On one hand, we have Digimon Battle portraying BlueMeramon and SkullMeramon as alternate Ultimates for the Meramon line, and they are both the same level. On the other, Jintrix doesn't say anything about it being a slide evolution.

How strict are we going to be about slide evolutions? Do we need something saying that a Digimon "was corrupted/transformed into a variant of the same Digimon", or do we simply need two Digimon of the same level with an evolutionary relationship?Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 20:16, November 8, 2011 (UTC)

Tyranomon

Just a heads-up, the newest V-Jump displays "Tyranomon > MetalTyranomon > RustTyranomon". This doesn't qualify for DW:EVOREF yet, but it's something to look into when the game comes out.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 16:57, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

Championship

To my understanding, Championship is essentially the same as the v-pets, with better graphics and increased ability for capture, right? There's no true story, the Digimon profiles are the Bandai generics, etc.

If true, then my question is:

• Do we want to allow game-based evolutions in Championship, Story, and the V-pets if there's no other options for evolution?

My interpretation of the policy is that, for these games, as with the cards, regardless of whether the player can change the outcome of the evolution, the evolution trees are still basically a casualty of the game mechanics, where the game designer placed ill-fitting Digimon together just so that evolution could actually be used; this is in contrast to the anime, manga, and Battle/Masters, where lines are created with the inherent purpose of evolving from one to another (there is a Hagurumon[Mekanorimon] line, which even as a Hagurumon is inherently a Digimon that evolves to Mekanorimon).

However, the converse is that most of the cases of "only one option" correspond with connections that are obviously intended (Petitmon > Bebydmon), whereas with story evolutions we've allowed for some real stinkers (like the mass degeneration in Sunburst/Moonlight). So, as long as we're consistent in applying it across the board, I'm open to change on this (though I'd still want to restrict it to championship and the v-pets, because Story and the card games...will just make too many stinkers.)

Thoughts?Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 23:01, May 22, 2014 (UTC)

I'm not going to lie; my first thought is that these distinctions sort of bleed into v-pet influenced systems as well, like World and Re:Digitize. I was against including the v-pets altogether save for fiction-based ones, and with this policy the "obviously" criteria is a sticking point for me. Is it only single-evolutions? Baby to In-Training? There are some Ultimate > Mega that are single lines in Championship as well, so would we go with those as well? (Megadramon > Gallantmon is one that rubs me in the wrong way).

In general, I'm hesitant to include anything that has branches that doesn't provide an indicator of a "true" path, and v-pets fall into that category, Championship included. Lanate (talk) 03:12, May 23, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, I definitely think that if we allow the one-path evolutions from v-pets and championship, there's not a lot of reason to forbid one-path evolutions in the cards even when they don't make sense.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 05:00, May 23, 2014 (UTC)

If this discussion started for my Petitimon -> Babydmon edit, I only added those because the evolution requirement is simply "passing time", which is the same one we use for the V-pets and other games. Anime... PAAWAA!!! 20:55, May 23, 2014 (UTC)

Right, but do we allow that requirement for other v-pets, past the babies?Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 07:15, May 24, 2014 (UTC)

Whamon

"1. In the Japanese version Whamon is a Champion but sometime before the kids returned to the Digi world he mentioned that he digivolved into Ultimate."

Can we verify this? I assume it would be during the MetalSeadramon arc.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 19:49, September 4, 2014 (UTC)

Checked episodes 41, 42, and 02's 16, no mention of Whamon having evolved. Anime... PAAWAA!!! 20:37, September 4, 2014 (UTC)

ExE

Do we count the ExE as canon? The form achieved seems to be based only on the two Digimon, and seems to have no other factors taken into account. Anime... PAAWAA!!! 19:19, March 18, 2016 (UTC)

How is that different from other game jogresses?Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 19:55, March 18, 2016 (UTC)

EXE is just temporary DNA rather than permanent.Marcusbwfc (talk) 15:17, September 9, 2018 (UTC)

Need to investigate for possible new lines

http://p-bandai.jp/item/item-1000104511

Kuzuhamon Miko Mode seems to be present, possibly as an evolution of Renamon? If so, this should probably be added to Renamon (Tamers) as well. We need to determine whether the dark evolution lines in previous d-arcs count as well.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 22:52, December 7, 2016 (UTC)

I assume the Dark Digivolution line of previous D-Arcs consisted of Youkomon, Doumon, and Kuzuhamon right? That seems to be the main alternate line for Renamon. Chimera-gui (talk) 23:53, December 7, 2016 (UTC)

Digimon Masters Burst Modes

So I've read before that items don't count for evolutions, which is why ladydevimon -> lilithmon from decode isnt counted (and a few others) because of the fact they use evolution crystals, but why is masters different to this? you have to use items to achieve these burst (and side) evolutions, such as a Kuzuhamon using the Monk's Staff. wouldn't this violate? or does it being an an item exclusive to that digimon make it count? and shouldn't we include the item in it as well? so sakuyamons side bar would say "with the monks staff" rather than just being listed as a straight evolution? with this, we'd be able to list decode evolutions by stating which crystal they used (unless of course, that is discounted due to it working on *all* digimon.Marcusbwfc (talk) 02:14, July 23, 2019 (UTC)

It's because the item works on all Digimon, similar to Spirits.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 13:39, July 23, 2019 (UTC)

on all? that to me would imply any mega could use the staff to become kuzuhamon. is that how it works? at the least I think we should specify on the side bar the item is used, so "Sakuyamon (w/ monks staff".Marcusbwfc (talk) 01:25, July 24, 2019 (UTC)

In Masters, the items are essentially being used as Crests, just an energy source. The evolution is intimately linked to the preceding line, as demonstrated in the encyclopedia entries. In Re:Digitize, those items are used like Spirits.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 14:04, July 25, 2019 (UTC)

Technically Digivolution items that function like Spirits in Frontier aren't unique to Re:Digitize as they were in the original Digimon World as well. Chimera-gui (talk) 14:17, July 25, 2019 (UTC)

Next Order also. But I guess I get it now if it's because they still count as part of the natural evolution this way, which is why the digivolution items don't count. though since ladydevimon has lilithmon in her natural tree in RD, that could count, though I guess a digivolution item is a digivolution item all the same. (how does this work for the digicore used on monzaemon -> lilithmon?)Marcusbwfc (talk) 23:15, July 25, 2019 (UTC)

I'm guessing it's because Lili is an NPC meaning the player had no involvement in Monzaemon's digivolution beyond getting the Digicore for her. Chimera-gui (talk) 01:32, July 26, 2019 (UTC)

As far as I know, the Digicore doesn't have an item equivalent in gameplay. The LadyDevimon > Lilithmon evolution is portrayed as her using an item that the player's can use for the same effect, though.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 12:44, July 26, 2019 (UTC)

Gacha/banner evolutions

Per discussion in the discord, I would like to propose that we treat gacha evolutions more conservatively.

For the last few years, we've treated them as roughly equivalent to the DMCG Win Ratio cards, which I think the consensus is solidly in favor of retaining as a definitely accepted source, mostly based on treating the description of the gacha banner or the statements/illustrations from the game developers of "new lines" being added as being accepted as an authorial statement that the evolution path exists within narrative. To my recall, we started this with Digimon RPG, and have been accepting what later gacha games and statements were made as being practically similar.

However, I feel that the spirit of these statements from devs are merely to inform the playerbase of a new playable character, and are not fundamentally similar to what the DW:EVOLVE policy was aiming to communicate originally. As such, I feel that allowing these types of evolutions blurs the line. There are also some cites that we included based on window dressing, like the Agumon evolutions used in the Digimon Links progress bar.

Masters is a bit of a halfaway-situation. We justified the lines illustrated within the Digivolution table lists from the old website based on most of them appearing within the game's Digimon Encyclopedia-style screens. However, it seems that those screens omit Burst Modes and most Side Megas, so there isn't really the fig leaf of narrative support that we assumed was there for those links in the chain.

As such, I'd like to propose the following changes:

1. Keep evolutions from Digimon Mobile Games that appear as part of the questline of the game (ex. Junomon > Hysteric Mode in Collectors)
2. Keep evolutions from Digimon Mobile Games that are mentioned as part of species profiles (ex. Gargomon > Rapidmon in Collectors)
3. Remove evolutions that are presented as part of how-to-play indexes or window dressing (Ex. Agumon > Greymon > MetalGreymon in Links)
4. Remove evolutions that are presented as part of gacha banners (ex. Rosemon > Rosemon Burst Mode in Links)
5. Remove the Raging Raid Battle! Apocalymon evolution from ReArise, which is too tenuous.
6. Remove the Jogress evolutions implied by DGV code items from ReArise
7. Remove evolutions that are otherwise advertised in promotional material tied to release of characters in a game, such as Bulucomon > Paledramon in Encounters.
8. Remove Burst Modes, Side Megas, and any other forms from the Masters list that are not confirmed to show up in the Encyclopedia-style screens.

Please advise your opinions on each.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 23:16, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

1. well, it'd be silly to remove the storyline ones.
2. profiles are fine, and most are just taking from the reference book anyway.
3. im fine with the agumon to wargreymon links stuff like that, but im not against removing it i guess. its not like agumon to wargreymon is anything new anyway.
4. the gacha stuff is a lot more relevant now that gacha games are prob the most popular type of game in the world. when its just "we have added this new playable unit, it evolves from this guy", its def a bit silly to push for that as dw:evolve. we even kinda see that in hackers memory when they added the ryudamon dlc and said they added that guy and his evos as new playable units. basically the same thing.
5. i guess that depends on if its supposed to be apocalymon across all forms, or are the prior forms his minions?
6. didnt realise we were including that jogress stuff in the first palce, but removing it changes nothing since theyre all sourced to prior media anyway (shouldnt metabee+rokusho > omedamon be in that?)
7. the blucomon one is *probably* fine, but if not i think the storyline one evolves to those forms anyway?
8. we dont seem to have any justification for them anyway outside of "all masters evos count" which was strenuous anyway. being more strict is good (same with rpg)Marcusbwfc (talk) 18:18, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

1. This is in line with DW:EVOLVE so yes.
2. This is in line with DW:EVOLVE so yes.
3. I am fine with this. We have precedent in how we don't list Agumon > Meramon from Digimon World Data Squad.
4. I am fine with this.
5. No strong opinion on this.
6. I am fine with this.
7. I am fine with this.
8. I am fine with this.

Lanate (talk) 14:35, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

as in fine with removing or fine with keeping?Marcusbwfc (talk) 17:22, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

I am agreeing with Kryten's statements. Lanate (talk) 04:00, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Tenuous card evolutions

Per request in the discord, I would like to raise for discussion the proposal that we reevaluate the D-Tector Card Game, Jintrix, and Digimon CCG "next evolution"-based citations, where we accepted an evolution because instead of giving a list of forms a card could evolve from, a card would list a specific form it should evolve to.

For Jintrix, as far as I can tell the field doesn't even represent a mandatory evolution -- instead, the language used just suggests a higher chance of evolution to a favored form.

For D-Tector, the appendix explains that we accepted these because they were used in conjunction with the D-Tector toy, but I confess that I can't clearly remember the details of how that worked and if the non-Warrior cards represent generic species rather than named characters, it seems to me that just being in a Digivice v-pet shouldn't cross that line for us.

For the CCG, to my memory all it really has to justify it is that it was similar in presentation to what we allowed for the D-Tector card game. It's not an illustrated scene and there's really no pretense of fiction or story that I'm aware of.

Please advise your opinions on each.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 23:16, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

For me, all of these implied (and in the CCG case outright stated) that they were a true Digivolution line, which is why they were accepted. I have a slight preference for keeping them. Lanate (talk) 14:35, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

then what about specfically needs prevos in the 2020 card game? e.g., vikemon from shakkoumon/zudomon. or i guess more relevant, rasenmon fury mode has an effect that allows him to evolve *to* regular rasenmon. that feels like it falls under the same as this previously mentioned style.Marcusbwfc (talk) 17:24, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

I will retract my support for the CCG non-art evos then. Lanate (talk) 04:24, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Same-level evolutions

Per the descriptions in the memorial book, we have inclusive definitions for Mode Change and Slide Evolution:

• Awakening a different power while remaining an identical Digimon with the same level is called a "Mode Change". It's an astonishing event in which it's said the Digimon intentionally rewrites the data within its own DigiCore, so body color will change or shape will transform dramatically.
• Transforming to a different species while remaining at the same level is called "Slide Evolution". While a Mode Change rewrites the data within a DigiCore, this is an even more astonishing event in which it's said the DigiCore itself is rewritten into that of a completely different Digimon.

Based on these definitions, it seems to me all evolutions of a Digimon to another species at the same level are either Mode Changes or Slide Evolutions -- they would not be considered from/to. If the "to" form is still the same kind of Digimon, it's a Mode Change (ex. Justimon Arms, Etemon & Etemon Chaos), while if it's a holistic change, it's a Slide Evolution. There is still some vagueness of what counts as a holistic change. My proposal is that Bakemon/Soulmon, MetalEtemon/KingEtemon, Phantomon/MetalPhantomon, SaberLeomon/Dinotigermon, would be the same archetype, and so would be Mode Changes. To me, this also implies that virtually all post-Mega evolutions are canonically Slides or Changes.

1. For pre-Mega same-level evolutions, I propose that we convert all from/to evolutions to slide/mode evolutions, and update the EVOREF documents accordingly.
   1. If the forms are the same archetype (Agumon / BlackAgumon, Etemon / Etemon Chaos, etc., following the BushiAgumon/BlackAgumon/Agumon Hakase inclusions here), I believe they should be considered Mode Change evolutions.
   2. If the forms are different archetypes, they would be considered Slides. Off the top of my head, this would include Dinotigermon > BanchoLiomon, and BanchoLiomon > Marsmon. I'm not sure how many others this falls into, as Mode Changes seem vastly more common.
   3. For this issue, I think Armor should be considered separate from Champion (so Centarumon > Sagittarimon is an evolution), but Xros would be considered its non-Xros assigned level (so Chibickmon > Pickmon is an evolution).
2. For Ultimate evolutions, I propose we redefine all non-Jogress evolutions as Mode Change or Slide, with the same factors as above (https://digimon.net/profile/report021/ defines Omnimon, Chaosmon, Millenniummon as Jogresses, clarifying that there does not need to be a change in level).
3. We would need to discuss how chained evolutions entangled with Mode Changes and Slide Evolutions would work. There are two options -- we treat a set of Mode Changes/Slide Evos as a cluster, and so any evo to/from that cluster applies to all members of the cluster, or we treat them as individuals, so we have to demonstrate a valid evolution to/from each specific form to list it in the infobox. Current policy was designed to make the protagonist warp digivolution and dedigivolution a lot easier to handle, but leads to some of the lengthened chains we've received complaints about. Examples:
   • Bakemon > Soulmon > Phantomon > MetalPhantomon and Bakemon > Phantomon and Bakemon > MetalPhantomon
   • Agumon > BlackAgumon > Tyrannomon and Agumon > Tyrannomon
   • The recursive Kuzuhamon/Sakuyamon and Maid Mode loops
   • GrapLeomon > SaberLeomon > Dinotigermon > BanchoLeomon > Marsmon, GrapLeomon > Marsmon, and GrapLeomon > BanchoLeomon
   • Any instances where the protagonist Digimon "warp dedigivolve" while having a branching path, like Agumon, Gabumon, Patamon, Palmon, Gatomon, or similar.

If we still have an assumption of warp breaking across multiple levels, it would need a decision regarding reconverging paths. From what I can find, we have:

• Gabumon > Garurumon
• Gabumon > Sagittarius
• Gabumon > MetalGarurumon
• Gabumon > CresGarurumon
• Garurumon > WereGarurumon
• Garurumon > Sagittarius
• WereGarurumon > Sagittarius
• Sagittarius > MetalGarurumon
• Sagittarius > CresGarurumon

So, looking at 2020 in isolation, with slide/mode distinction and no clustering, we could say Gabumon > Garurumon > Sagittarius > Metal or CresGarurumon, and then Gabumon > Garurumon > WereGarurumon. We would list WereGarurumon/Sagittarius as Mode Changes of each other, but we would not list WereGarurumon > MetalGarurumon. Alterous and Patamon are even more confusing to try to untangle. If we treat these all as individuals, we need to track degenerations a lot more closely than I think we already do. If we treat them as clusters, we could say "WereGarurumon and Sagittarius are Mode changes and therefore definitionally the 'same Digimon', so if one can evolve to CresGarurumon, so can the other." I'm personally leaning towards clustering -- in this example, WereGarurumon is very often an intermediate between Garurumon and Sagittarius, while Garurumon only directly evolves to Sagittarius once, so I believe it better preserves the implicit "sequence" that the narrative is presenting.

As a third option, we can say "fuck it" to warp breaking, and do it like wikimon does -- so MetalGarurumon's list would include (if I recall correctly) Punimon, Tsunomon, Gabumon, Garurumon, WereGarurumon, and Sagittarius, all simultaneously.

Whether we do non-clustering or get rid of warp breaking entirely, we would need to start tracking each variant of a degeneration on the EVOREF lists. If we do clustering, we would need to basically create a table of archetype members for use in reading the EVOREF pages (ex. if it says BlackAgumon can evolve to something, so can Agumon). Either way, the page would need to be refactored.

Please note your stances on each of these questions below.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 18:55, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

we dont need to get rid of warp break, we just will discount same level stuff. so both weregarurumon and weregarurumon sagitarrious mode would list metalgarurumon as their next form (which were already doing, actually, but only disounted it for mode changes and not slides). we would do the same with agumon/blackagumon. with blackagumon as a slide/mode change/whatever, we cna list tyrannomon as a next form for both of them (though if we go with the choice to delete evolution banners, blackagumon will lose tyrannnomon as thats form a links banner). we need to careful on formatting and have slide form/to (or mode change from/to) so that people dont think blackagumon can evolve to agumon since thts not actually a thing. its agumon permo evolving to his black variant, which is why wed say "slide from". in regards to the jogress thing - thats just the englsih version doing "jogress" and "jogress evolution" instead of "fusion" and "jogress", because they like to be confusing. the terms of what fusion and jogress are remain the same (fusion doenst increase level, jogress does). i disagree with counting bakemon/soulmon and the others as mode changes. their names should be the same. i.e. if he was called bakemon soul mode. soulmon should, and is, a slide because soulmon is not bakemon. blackagumon ill give a pass as hes referred to as only agumon sometimes (the tcg) or agumon (black). soulmon/metalphatomon should not be mode changes - and are slides. though unless we add a mode change field, it wont really matter as itll be in slide anyway. we have no worry on xros forms, as they have levels now. 2020 had machinedrmaon evolve to wargreymon (which also gives us chaosdramon to consider, who should be slide). a lot of these issues will go away by going with the plan to delete stuff like dmo burst modes and evolution banners. also there's gatomon/skullknightmon.Marcusbwfc (talk) 19:13, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

To clarify about warp break -- while the larger canon gives us WereGarurumon > MetalGarurumon, in 2020 specifically there are no cases to justify WereGarurumon > Metal or CresGarurumon. It's always Sagittarius > Metal or CresGarurumon. That's the kind of consequence I want us to make sure we're aware of -- if we go that direction, we would have to rely on other material deigning to take the alternate path, with it implied as a "dead end" until we do.

I don't think we have an EVOLVE-validated evo of BlackAgumon > Agumon specifically, but in a more general sense we do see stuff like BlackAgumon > Agumon X, as well as seeing the ToyAgumon's blackened and purified.

Regarding jogress - the Profile Report directly calls Omegamon and Chaosmon Jogresses, in the Japanese version. While other media has pushed a "Fusion" distinction, the Profile Reports abandon it. Either way, they would be neither Mode Changes nor Slides.

Bakemon and Soulmon can maybe be considered separate species based on the technicality of name (although it is literally just Bakemon with a hat, and we see a similar situation with Kuzuhamon/Sakuyamon where the profile doesn't even necessarily say it evolved, it just says it is one of the larger species), but per the standard established in Report 01, Etemon Chaos/MetalEtemon/KingEtemon are definitely the same archetype as Etemon and each other, as are Phantomon and MetalPhantomon, and would necessarily be mode changes. Since we need to clean up the EVOREF either way, we could compile a list of same-evo evolutions and have a discussion over each one whether they're Slides or Modes, but based on a quick perusal most of them appear to be what the definition would classify as Mode Changes.

Even if we reduce what's considered valid in the first place, as suggested in threads above, Adventure 2020 alone will give a ton of headache no matter which way we take this. Excluding Ponchomon, Sagittarius is probably the simplest example to path out in that story. Patamon, Agumon, and Gatomon get much more complex when the whole psychological evolutions/bigenerations/etc. are accounted for.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 20:14, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

some slides being dead ends is fine, if it fits what happens in the overall franchise. e.g, its not like tai's skulglreymon ever evolved to wargreymon. tais skullgerymon is a dead end. i dont think 2020 does anything complicated though, were "bailed out" by other media. if it was a new series and it was Newmon > Newmon OP Mode > Megamon, then yeah, Newmon would be seen as a dead end without a next form. Meicoomon/Saltation is a thing where she turned into Meicrackmon from both of her Champion forms. we have weregarurumon > metalgaruurumon from a million things and sagitiarrious > metal from 2020. theyre independent of each other (being different continuities) and can be listed seperately, where on the weregarurumon page we have sagitarrious mode as "slide", and metalgarurumon as "next". in regards to cres garurumon, theres a few sources for that from the regular werewolf as well. i dont think theres too much to worry about (the main thing were trying to avoid here is stuff like removing tyrannomon from agumon or removing wargeymon from metalgreymon)Marcusbwfc (talk) 21:31, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Strictly speaking, I’m pretty sure the English translation of the report uses "Fusion" and "DNA Digivolution" for Jogress and Jogress Evolution respectively. I’m also against any policy that abandons warp breaks because that’s just gonna more headaches for us. I only care about gives us the fewest headaches right now. Chimera-gui (talk) 15:23, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

I'm not seeing a site-moderated translation for that report. Are you sure you weren't looking at a google auto-translate? In any case, it's trivial to look at the Japanese version of the report and see that it explicitly calls Omegamon, Alphamon Ouryuken, Chaosmon, and Millenniummon Jogresses. It also says: "The fusing of two Ultimate Digimon into one new Digimon, or the fusing of two Digimon of different levels, is also called 'Jogress'." (2体の究極体が合体し1体の新たな究極体になること、レベルが異なる2体が合体することも「ジョグレス」と呼ぶ。) So the Fusion/Jogress distinction has officially been discarded by digimon.net.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 06:18, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

they’re using “jogress” and “jogress evolution”, instead of “jogress” and “fusion”. So there’s still the differing of term. English term sticks to “Fusion” and “DNA Digivolve”. So the concept is still there but renamed for this one article. Marcusbwfc (talk) 07:34, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

To be clear, it's not two separate terms, it's one term that has a subset.

• "2体のデジモン同士が合体し、新たなデジモンに生まれ変わることを「ジョグレス」という。"

All of them are called Jogresses, but when the final form is a higher level than both of the base forms, it is called a Jogress Evolution. It's like how Armor Evolution is a subset of Evolution.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 14:20, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

theyre still saying that two guys fusing together to increase in level is a different type of evolution that if the level remains the same. nothing really changes.Marcusbwfc (talk) 17:34, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

We’re getting off track right now, why are we going off about Fusions anyway? I thought the discussion was about Slide Evolution and Warp breaks. Chimera-gui (talk) 21:33, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

1. I agree that same-level evolutions should move to Mode Changes/Slide Evolutions as appropriate.
   1. I agree with the three sub-bullets proposed by Kryten.
2. I don't understand this bullet point.
3. I believe that we still warp break but we should not cluster.

Lanate (talk) 02:45, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

I believe the second bullet point is that any Lvl VI > Lvl VI Digivolution that doesn’t involve some form of Fusion should be classified as a Mode Change or Slide Evolution with the same rules as before applying.

That said, I’m not comfortable with the concept of Digimon archetypes that aren’t explicitly recognized families in canon, recognized Digimon families being the Greymon and Garurumon species, such as Bakemon and Etemon despite there being explicit subspecies since even the article linked as an example of an archetype includes Agumon: Bond of Bravery, who Agumon Expert flat out admits doesn’t lineup with other Agumon not to mention MarineAngemon is a thing meaning that not even names can be 100% trusted for denoting an archetype. What exactly denotes Dinotigermon as being a subspecies of SaberLeomon when the Encyclopedia only states that Dinotigermon Digivolves from SaberLeomon and Wikimon doesn’t even recognize them as being subspecies like Soulmon being a subspecies of Bakemon. Not to mention Mode Change is, by official definition, formatted as the original species’ name: _ Mode thus anything that is not this should be classified as a Slide Evolution, not a Mode Change Chimera-gui (talk) 06:44, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Marcus: they are explicitly saying it's not a different kind. All the examples are jogress, but if there is an increase in level, that is a subclass of jogress called jogreas evolution. Chickens are not a different kind of thing than birds, they are a type of bird.

lanate: second bullet is that all ultimate > ultimate evolutions must either be jogress, mode change, or slide, per the definitions given.

chimera: mode change is not officially defined as being formatted that way and excluded by name. It's common, but not official, and there are plenty of clear counterexamples, like Justimon or Black/(Black) digimon. Instead the official definition given hinges on whether the digicore is partially or completely rewritten. We can go into detailed discussion on each example when we go through the archive, but I would personally consider "this is the X version of an existing digimon but we changed the name" to still be a partial rewrite, and I would definitely consider "this is basically a color change of an existing digimon or has some aesthetic additions" or "this is so clearly the same digimon that we just added an adjective in the name somewhere" to be a partial rewrite, using report 001 as an example of how much variation is considered still fundamentally the same species. Remember, gaomon/gazimon and exveemon/veedramon are canonically "breeds" of the same overall species. This is the main consequence of relying on the book definitions to separate out slides and evos as inclusive definitions rather than using only specific names examples as exclusive definitions.

for agumon bond, that one is separated in the report as a different level and is not in the grouping of "types of agumon", which was the precedent I was referring to. That being said, it would look to fall under level-changing "modes" such as lucemon and agumon burst mode, which per the book definition are not actually mode changes (and also why we can't just take "it has mode in its name" as the official definition").Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 13:41, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

I agree with the statement that Ultimate > Ultimate would be jogress/mode change/slide. Lanate (talk) 04:20, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

---

As a secondary factor of the discussion, we need to discuss what happens with level equations, denial, or changes. Ex., Kabuterimon > Kongoumon, Leomon > MadLeomon, or Darcmon > Hippogriffomon.

There's a few options I see:

1. DRB or similar "official" levels are the be-all/end-all. In particular, this means that the "Xros" level is essentially obsolete.
   1. K-K would be an evo, L-M would be a slide, D-H would be an evo
2. DRB or similar is used as basis, but with principle of "charity" from precedent of level equations. In particular, this means that a history of an Armor species being equated to a level would keep that as a slide, and the "Xros" level would still be essentially obsolete. Main drawback would be that Armors have been equated to most everything throughout the years -- we would have to decide either how to restrict that, or always treat non-Digimental Armors as slides.
   1. K-K would be a slide, L-M would be a slide, D-H would be an evo
3. If the media in general denies levels, everyone is treated as one "non" level. In particular, this means almost everything in Frontier and Fusion would be Slides or Mode Changes, and it could be argued that any case where a level isn't explicitly given would be included.
   1. K-K would be a slide, L-M would be a slide, D-H would be a slide, but also Tsunomon-Gabumon would be a slide, Pagumon-Raremon would be a slide, etc.

Please give other spins on the approaches as you see fit.

Personally, I lean toward option 1 as the easiest to keep track of. The main drawback is that, despite what the official lore has stated, Darcmon > Hippogriffomon has explicitly been called a Slide. We would either need to write that off as having been retconned, or we would need to alterate our understanding of the data presented somehow, and run with that consistently (something like option 2). Off the top of my head, the non-Digimental Armors we have are Kabuterimon > Kongoumon, Centarumon > Sagittarimon, Armadillomon > Chamelemon, and Drimogemon > Digmon. I don't recall whether Digi-Egg Digivolution Chart only covers DW:EVOLVE-compatible evos (looking at Kongoumon it appears some of those evos are omitted, but Wormmon points to the chart in its own infobox), and I'm not sure whether it only covers the Digimental-based evos or whether it includes all evos to an Armor-level Digimon.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 13:08, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

levels dont really exist in frontier and fusion. fusion we know for sure, as its part of the entire lore that levels dont exist. frontier is more of a maybe, but theyre never mentioned and would explain agunimon beating cerberusmon in episode 1 then losing to candlemon in episode 1. darcmon/hippogriffoomon was just copying the "human to beast slide evo" so in that sense you could argue they were actually hybrid level. but in essenece its just no level darcmon to no level hippogriffomon (and murmuksmon). i do think we need to take into context each piece of media though, for example if a saberleomon evolves to dinotigermon where ultra level exists - thats an increase of level and we should treat it as such. in regards to armor, the veemon in rearise evolves to armor forms without the egg mulitple times (as do his friends of hawkmon and armadillomon). but i think it can be taken in context - golden armor digimon are seen as equal to mega basically. kongouomon is intended as an upgrade (but fusion doesnt use levels anyway, so its not level kabuterimon evolving to no level kongoumon. but its sitll intended as an upgrade ala shoutmon > omnishoutmon). im fien with leomon as a mode change per dark evolution (or reverse dark). also, the entire basis of darcmon was that it was lying - whos to say it wasnt lying about slide evolving? the basis was that those were his disguises and so werent even his real forms (murmuskmon). levels *maybe* exist in frontier, but theyre never mentioned and guys beat guys multiple levels higher there often enough. if we treat darcmon stuff as a slide still, the clear intent is that they were going human > beast that honestly implies fake hybrid level .Marcusbwfc (talk) 16:15, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

I favor option two with the caveat of treating Armor as a Slide by default unless it is explicitly treated as a Digivolution (Kabuterimon > Kongoumon would be a Slide, all Level 3 > Armor Level and Drimogemon > Digmon would be Digivolutions). While it's not the perfect option, it is the most honest and I value honesty over what's easiest. Chimera-gui (talk) 22:57, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

I'm in agreement with Chimera here. Lanate (talk) 04:17, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

im fine with whatever gets it done, though armor = champion is still kinda eh to me.Marcusbwfc (talk) 02:49, 15 December 2024 (UTC)