Talk:MedievalGallantmon

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The picture doesn't really show to me that Dunas is a lance. Sure the other end is sharp but he seems to be holding it more like an axe. And the phrase "That looks like a pole axe" troubles me. A "pollaxe" as the weapon is referred to is not simply an axe mounted on a pole. It is a specific weapon and I think "looks like a pole axe" should be reworded in this regard to better represent the nature of the weapon. I thought I'd start a discussion before changing anything. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollaxe_(polearm)
 * The official profile uses the symbol for "Lance" or "Javelin", and that's what we go with. It is kind of a catch-all for polearm's, though, so if you can find the exact type of weapon it is, that could work. 09:31, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Would it be ok to call it a Labrys? Historically, they could be huge, and I think it fits better than Spear does. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labrys Jmac28211 (talk) 05:18, June 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * Labryses don't have that spike at the end, making MDmon's weapon more similar to a Spontoon, Halberd, or a Partisan. That could be mentioned in a Design section, which we will be adding to pages once we get he formats figured out for the new MoS. You can start work on it now if you want. For the lead paragraph, however, that needs to be based on the official profile, which unambiguously says "lance/spear". 20:06, June 15, 2014 (UTC)

F*** the people choosing names
For god's sakes. 02:30, February 15, 2016 (UTC)
 * Might want to double check that cause I assume they misread Medieval as Medical. Chimera-gui (talk) 03:23, February 15, 2016 (UTC)
 * Or we can just make a special exception that Cyber Sleuth doesn't matter, since the people localizing it clearly thought the same thing. F*** this incredibly stupid noise. You have fan patches for translations made with love and care, but instead of hiring people who'd almost be willing to do it for free, they come out with this. There better be a damn patch, seriously. 06:32, February 15, 2016 (UTC)
 * I would be OK with declaring Cyber Sleuth an exception to the first dub name. If I remember correctly, I was one of the people talking against arbitrariety in the past because it makes no sense, but now I seriously consider arbitrariety a viable option for this game. Heck, MedicalGallantmon!? How do you commit a misread of this level? That doesn't even the Piyomon/Biyomon excuse of dakuten and handakuten being similar, it's just a colossal Huck-up. I swear, when I'm in vacation, I'll make fanart of MedievalDukemon as a doctor just to mock the dub team.
 * Aaaaaand... This puts in question the reliability of the official translation. I was intending on using the English game's dialogue to get info about the multiverse, but now I think I'll try to make my own translations of the same scenes. 00:00, February 16, 2016 (UTC)/22:00, February 15, 2016 (Brasília, summer time)
 * I know folks don't like using the dub names of related species to auto-dub undubbed species but I do think that using the name "MedievalGallantmon" would make the most sense. Chimera-gui (talk) 03:52, February 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * That's not always consistent, though. We have the whole BantyoLiomon > BanchoLeomon thing, and a few other examples. Erg...honestly, we have to go with MedicalGallantmon, it's the only dub name and this is a dub wiki. Our duty is to facts. However, if anyone can get me contact info for BandaiNamco, I really want us to try and contact them about a possible patch. 09:28, February 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * You can try this E-mail address but I can't guarantee how successful you'll be: support@bandainamcoent.com Chimera-gui (talk) 01:09, February 17, 2016 (UTC)
 * We can always change the name to MedicalGallantmon temporarily and change it back when MedievalDukemon is released in Digimon Heroes, can't we? A la Lucemon Larva. --Charles.929 (talk) 22:59, February 17, 2016 (UTC)
 * ...Lucemon Rival?...yeah, Heroes supersedes Cyber Sleuth for all content. For fuck's sake. 03:33, February 19, 2016 (UTC)
 * Except that we've already confirmed that Heroes is using the original Japanese names so I don't think that it should be considered for official dub names. Not to mention the fact that Heroes is technically a shovelware game. And Kryten? Namco Bandai has a history of this sort of shit with other franchises they own according to someone I've talk to before. Chimera-gui (talk) 04:10, February 19, 2016 (UTC)
 * It's an English, localized game that was released before Cyber Sleuth. If we're already willing to martyr ourselves for the policy, I don't see why Heroes should be excluded just because it was less of a mess than the localizations usually are. 04:46, February 19, 2016 (UTC)
 * It's "less of a mess" only by virtue of it just using the Digimon Reference Book's English names rather than using long established dub names such as Gatomon or Omnimon which is exactly the reason why I'm against using it in the first place. I am already leery about using a app game, which are notorious for being low quality garbage hence the earlier  comment, as a primary localization source over an actual console game that was brought over by fan demand despite the latter obviously suffering Namco Bandai's typical poor translation standards. But the fact that said app game doesn't even bother using long established localized names is a huge red flag for me. Chimera-gui (talk) 06:11, February 19, 2016 (UTC)
 * Digimon World Dawn and Dusk used "WarGarurumon", "BlackSaintGargomon", "SlashAngemon", and "Cherubimon". The policy was never "use the most-dubbed names", it was "use the original localized names, prioritizing anime, then manga, then games, then cards/toys". Heroes was localized first, and produces names that are the least likely to confuse readers. If the policy was on "how faithful is this release to previous localizations", Fusion and Cyber Sleuth would be out on the street anyway, because of shit like Samudramon and Magnamon. That Heroes is an app game is also immaterial, as it's still officially licensed and we were happily using names from Digimon Fusion Battles before this. 16:45, February 19, 2016 (UTC)
 * For anyone here saying what came first is the official name, we just had a discussion about this and the rules say that, for games, the latest one supercedes the former ones. 18:39, February 19, 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you! And for your information Kryten, Samudramon isn't a bad name since the page straight up says that it's a samurai version of WarGreymon. Also, I'd argue the use of the Japanese names would be more likely to confuse people who have no experience with the Japanese material. Chimera-gui (talk) 18:47, February 19, 2016 (UTC)
 * And WarGreymon isn't a Dramon, so it's name is misinformation on a pretty basic level. And Lucemon Larva is a larva, not a Rival, and MedievalDukemon is not a medic. These names are shit. I'm fully in favor of revising that policy to use first game first, as we do with all other categories, but if there's no consensus for that, fine. These names are terrible, but the point of the policy is to be consistent. 19:34, February 19, 2016 (UTC)
 * Just to be clear, I would be OK with changing the policy on games dub names, I was just pointing out that the policy was being misquoted. Why do we do later names again?
 * Also, Kryten, you said we have to use MedicalGallantmon because it's the only dub name available. Are you saying that, regardless of rules, if there were other dub names available, we could arbitrarily decide to ignore this one, if there were community consensus? 20:33, February 20, 2016 (UTC)
 * I believe the reasoning is the same as the reasoning as the overall naming policy: Since Species can go through multiple names within the span of a year, we use the most current as to avoid situations such the Bearmon/Kumamon controversy where Bearmon's name was mistranslated as "Kumamon" in Digimon World 3 despite the fact that not only did Japanese material, specifically the Frontier movie Island of Lost Digimon, use the name Bearmon from the beginning but the name "Kumamon" would be used for a different Digimon altogether not long after DW3 forcing Bandai to correct its mistake. Chimera-gui (talk) 21:20, February 20, 2016 (UTC)
 * G-Santos, I'm saying that I believe the game priority policy should be changed to prefer first over last, as done with the other categories. I accepted the previous policy as consensus the last time it was brought up, but due to Cyber Sleuth, the pros of having that game as the odd one out are less than the cons. 20:34, February 21, 2016 (UTC)
 * Just throwing a wrench in the works, but I'd prefer most common, with a side of personal discretion when it comes to which applies. I gave an impassioned rant about us being able to supersede really dumbass names if there are localized alternatives on Talk:Marsmon. I'd still say we'd have to use MedicalGallantmon because it is the only localized name we have for it, but it lets up mix and match between Heroes! and Cyber Sleuth to try and pick the best of both worlds. Lanate (talk) 02:02, February 22, 2016 (UTC)
 * I can accept that. As long as we use the work's name when referring to the entity within that work, it shouldn't cause too much of a problem. 15:21, February 22, 2016 (UTC)
 * That seems good enough for me, but would it affect Hououmon? 22:51, February 22, 2016 (UTC)
 * I think so, because a quick poll does the following:
 * Hououmon:
 * Tamers
 * Digimon Battle
 * All-Star Rumble
 * Heroes!
 * Cyber Sleuth
 * Phoenixmon
 * World
 * World 2
 * World 3
 * Digital Card Battle
 * World DS
 * Dawn and Dusk
 * Championship
 * Masters
 * Digi-Battle Card Game
 * D-Tector/Card Game
 * Digimon Collectible Card Game
 * It may get moved back in the future as it seems like the current trend is leaning toward Hououmon dominance. Lanate (talk) 03:08, February 23, 2016 (UTC)
 * Would the "personal discretion" cover the Ebonwumon/Zhuqiaomon debacle? That, Daemon, and Hououmon were, I believe, the foundational cases for why we started the prioritization system. I've come to accept Creepymon and Phoenixmon, since those are at least names that describe the Digimon, but Ebonwumon/Zhuqiaomon is literally a top-to-bottom fuckup. 17:16, February 23, 2016 (UTC)
 * I'd assume so that and the Bearmon/Kumamon example I mentioned above were why the dub name policy was developed in the first place. Chimera-gui (talk) 19:43, February 23, 2016 (UTC)
 * Actually, Kumamon isn't at all a difficult situation. The names are usable for both of them. Daemon and Hououmon were that we preferred the anime names, but Ebonwumon/Zhuqiaomon are the only ones I know (until Fusion and @#$@ing CS) that were absolutely, 100% unacceptable because they were such a monumental fuckup.
 * Now, we have Magnamon, which is just good fun all around. And, I've read (but can't yet confirm) that CS makes the same Ebonwumon/Zhuqiaomon fuckup that we instituted prioritization to avoid. I am very, very against any formulation of the policy that defeats the entire reason we instituted it in the first place. From what I've read, the truly bad errors in CS we've been discussing are localized to the Medals (like WarGrowlmon). I would be fine going with our previous policy if we make an exception that the Medals simply are not usable for localization purposes -- it's too shoddily done. 20:26, February 23, 2016 (UTC)
 * I'd be fine with ignoring the Medals as necessary if those are the biggest screw-up in CS though I do think that the more reasonable localisations, such as FlaWizarmon into FlameWizardmon as that lines up with two established localization trends: "Fla(me)" which is shared with Flamemon & Flamedramon and Wizar(d) which is shared with Wizardmon, should be kept at the very least. Chimera-gui (talk) 21:23, February 23, 2016 (UTC)
 * In addition to FlameWizardmon, I also like Agumon Expert and Fake Agumon Expert. I'd like to carve out a mix-and-match provision, especially if I can do things like get around Chaosdromon with the help of Heroes and Cyber Sleuth. Lanate (talk) 04:04, February 24, 2016 (UTC)
 * BanchoLillymon would also be another reasonable localization to keep as it shares an established localization trend with Lillymon as well as the use of "Bancho" in the dub names which is shared with its fellow Bancho, specifically BanchoLeomon in Data Squad. Chimera-gui (talk) 05:06, February 24, 2016 (UTC)
 * https://i.imgur.com/OryZEbd.jpg Next Order saves the day.Marcusbwfc (talk) 05:16, May 25, 2018 (UTC)

Gallant/Medical
Okay so with MedievelGallantmon being refused due to "we dont pick names we like", then that surely means that the above notion of "we're choosing not to use Medical because it sucks ass" is invalid. Heroes uses the Japanese name for every single Mon, using "holy" over "holly" isn't an instance of "dub name" because they're dumb and spelled Holy wrong. If MG is refused, then Medical should be the name, Heroes shouldn't really count. If it does there's a lot of names that should be changed due to the fact it was the first game in 7+ years. I actually remember when they brought it out, I messaged their support page asking why they aren't using the correct names and they replied that they're using the Japanese names because they're more consistent. This is when I learned they had different names in Japanese. Heroes isn't dub names game, which makes Cyber Sleuth first with it, which used Medical. If going with the "that name sucks ass" discussion here, that makes NO's name correct and if ignoring all of them because they're in game cards so they just put a name and didn't think about it, none of them count and the "autodubbing" goes with the NO name. The current name with Duke isn't really correct at all and is just using a game that uses Japanese names to be stubborn about "Medical". If we're counting Heroes, then I'd be more than happy to rename stuff such as BanchoLillymon, UltimateBrakimon, Aeigsdramon etc because Heroes came before all of them and used the Japanese names. IDK why this one page gets special treatment just because a few mods disliked medical? also, there's pages like SnowGoblimon that changed after Next Order brought in the new name, surely that should remain as SnowGoburimon then due to World 1? there's been quite a few "pick and choose", where a more recent name has been chosen. If games are "more recent", then Medicial because of HM, whilst also Medic due to CS if first dub name. NO is in the middle and is what the auto dubbing and not fucked up name would be. So yeah, I'm either arguing for it to be Medic due to CS, or Medivel due to NO. Heroes didnt' use dub names and if it counts we need to rename a bunch of articles because Heroes preceded CS. This page name has just been "I dont like that name, keep the Japanese"Marcusbwfc (talk) 16:49, May 25, 2018 (UTC)


 * "surely means that the above notion of "we're choosing not to use Medical because it sucks ass" is invalid. " -- yes, that has always been the case. My complaining about something is not the same as setting policy, and the above discussion was not where the discussion on the topic ended.
 * "using "holy" over "holly" isn't an instance of "dub name" because they're dumb and spelled Holy wrong." -- not how it works. We don't get to pick and choose which count as names. Heroes! presented Bandai-approved names in a localized game to the NA market. That's the criteria. We also don't get to pretend something is the official Japanese name just because the DRB has strange spellings, or half the names in the franchise wouldn't count as English names.
 * "I actually remember when they brought it out, I messaged their support page asking why they aren't using the correct names and they replied that they're using the Japanese names because they're more consistent." -- there isn't a "standard english name" and "standard Japanese name" dichotomy. That's the whole reason we have a policy in the first place, because unlike Pokemon, the names keep changing. As far as this wiki is concerned, there's "the name the NA market has access to" and "here's another name if available". We are not presenting the NA names desiring them to be distinct.
 * "because Heroes came before all of them and used the Japanese names." -- yes, those should have retained the Heroes! name. I was not aware that that had been flubbed. They need to be moved back, or the community need to agree on a policy that prioritizes them without requiring individual discretion.
 * "there's been quite a few "pick and choose", where a more recent name has been chosen." -- yes, and the existing policy doesn't support those, and I vehemently disagree with them.
 * "This page name has just been "I dont like that name, keep the Japanese" -- this page name is "this is what the policy says to use, and thank you for informing me that people have been ignoring policy on multiple other pages while not being clear about it." There is no agreed-upon version of the policy, nor any proposal for a policy, that would prioritize MedievalGallantmon. The viable options are either MedievalDukemon or MedicalGallantmon, depending on what the community goes with. 18:18, May 25, 2018 (UTC)
 * So Heroes counts as dub names, even though they just used the Japanese on everything? cuz if that's the case, even Omnimon Zwart would be reverted to Omegamon Zwart. Basically every Digimon introduced between... 2008(?) and 2015(?) would use the Japanese name because the Heroes staff were stubborn and it had literally every single Digimon in existence up to Cyber Sleuth, I guess. Cyber Sleuth then came a week later and gave most of them what would be seen as the correct dub name. I do think that Heroes should be discounted (and All-Star Rumble actually did come a year before Heroes, so I think a few of them are in there, actually. That had 200 cards, which are here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-E4q80bPnyI edit: I got an email that you added more just as I was editing. I would personally go with "MedicialGallantmon" because Heores used the Japanese names for literally everything and I guess "Ageigoschusmon Holy" is an exception, due to the RBD dudes fucking up and spelling Holy wrong, lmfao. So yeah, with Cyber sleuth using Medic, that's what I think we should go with. If we go with "most frequent", Hacker's Memory also uses it (cuz they appear to have been lazy and not changed any of the original medals), which makes it 2-1 for Medic vs 1 for Next Order. I do think for consistency, MedivalGallantmon should be used but for "first name", Medic is what it should be IMO, cuz Heroes was "Japanese names for everyone".Marcusbwfc (talk) 18:32, May 25, 2018 (UTC)
 * Any name changes that aren't based on the DRB need to be approved before they are implemented. Chimera-gui (talk) 18:06, May 26, 2018 (UTC)
 * I am giving my personal opinion, Marcus. Consensus would need to be reached before enacting anything. As far as Heroes! -- the point of listing by localized names is not localized names for their own sake. It's to try to ensure that the articles are organized in the way easiest for NA fans to find. Thus, any localization into English is valid for consideration -- the trick is how we agree to prioritize them. We distinguish them from the romanized names in Japanese materials, because those materials aren't for the NA market in the first place, and so can't sincerely be considered "localized". However, Heroes!, no matter what naming schema it used, was published in America and made widely available to the public. 14:53, May 29, 2018 (UTC)
 * Surely "Dukemon" is more confusing for people who will come here? since "Gallant" is used in everything else, as well as all three PS4 games as a card/medal, using "Duke" from a game that uses Japanese names only would create more confusion and the only reason it was used was due to Chimera not liking "medical", whilst he himself rename a few other Mons with newer names, such as "SnowGoblimon", cuz he likes the name better, I guess. With the current name and "MedicialGallantmon" being the acceptable names as you said, surely the one with "gallantmon" is the better of the two due to fitting his other forms? also, isn't "Axecalibermon" technically the first dub name? also do you have a link to the video game name policy? cuz I do wanna go over it, cuz I've seen mixed of "most recent name for games" and "first name for anime" and they seem to be being crossed? I actually have no clue how to reach any policies on here.Marcusbwfc (talk) 17:05, May 29, 2018 (UTC)
 * MedievalDukemon and Dukemon are different characters. It's like with Omegamon Zwart -- if the media available to the English players all used Omegamon Zwart, we'd also use Omegamon Zwart for that species, since otherwise we'd be asking the players to make up a name that wasn't being used.
 * "surely the one with "gallantmon" is the better of the two due to fitting his other forms" -- no, because of stuff like BelleStarmon, Crusadermon, etc. We don't select the names for fitting "the other forms", we need to select it based on what is going to be easiest to find for someone not a veteran to the franchise, who's trying to figure out "who's this character I saw in my game?".
 * "I actually have no clue how to reach any policies on here." - The Editing Guidelines page I linked you too is where we discuss policy. 21:23, May 29, 2018 (UTC)
 * Right, so when "Duke" is used once, due to Japanese names but the other three are "Gallant", with actual dub names, Gallant makes more sense and alerts people to the fact it's a Gallantmon. Omegamon Zwart D used that actual name in Next Order which is fine, as Omnimon Zwart D has not been used (and I figure it wont be changed should the next game refer to it as "Omnimon Zwart D"). Casual and even hardcore fans know them as the Gallantmons and this is the only page that uses the Japanese name. Using Duke causes more confusion, especially as no other mons that debuted in the phone game are using those names. You said MedicalGallantmon is also acceptable, which not only fits better compared to the other Gallantmons but also is the first proper appearance of a dub name, due to it not using dub names. If this remains with this name, then Omnimon Zwart, Maid Mode Sakuyamon, BanchoLillymon, FlameWizardmon, UltimateBrachiomon, Agumon Expert, Fake Agumon Expert plus a few others would need to be changed due to being in Heroes a week before Cyber Sleuth (cuz didn't Heroes have literally every mon in existence?) this is the only page using the Heroes name whilst alternate dub names were used from CS, NO and HM. In addition, SnowGoblimon was changed due to "matching Goblimon's anime name after 20 years." (as were a few other Digimon). I'd assume that includes all Arcadiamon's other than the Ultimate (Fusion) and the Mega (ASR)?, which would then mean the Baby, Rookie, Champion and Ultra (and would prob have been called "Super Ultimate", rather than Ultra) would go by the Japanese name? because Heroes came before Hacker's Memory for those three. Heroes had thousands of Digimon in it, every Mon in existence up to 2016 and then I assumed added newer ones like Alter-B up until it closed in 2017. So yeah, with the names that are currently used on all those articles, they are ignoring Heroes, due to Japanese names, and this is the only one not ignoring it.Marcusbwfc (talk) 21:41, May 29, 2018 (UTC)
 * MedievalDukemon isn't Gallantmon. It's a related species, but it's not equivalent, and we don't auto-dub.
 * "Casual and even hardcore fans know them as the Gallantmons" -- someone new to the series playing a game that labels it MedievalDukemon isn't going to automatically assume to search for "MedievalGallantmon", and the kind of person that would assume that is already going to be able to find the article by its existing name. Also, as a point of reference, the majority of "hardcore fans" use the BoJ names anyway -- there is a marked distaste for the BoA names in the core fandom.
 * "You said MedicalGallantmon is also acceptable," - I said that depending on which version of the naming policy is the current consensus, it could be acceptable. Please remember that we need to get all the staff in here to come to a current decision on which policy we're using.
 * "but also is the first proper appearance of a dub name, due to it not using dub names." -- by definition, Heroes! uses localized names, because it is a localized game. The point of organizing articles is solely and only to provide a baseline for readers to locate the article on a topic in the franchise, not to promote some sort of "unified NA naming scheme". Whether or not Heroes! based its names on prior names used by BoA, invented its own, or based them on suggested BoJ names, it is by definition a dub/localization. We are not the Pokemon wiki. BoA has not used a consistent set of names, and it's fruitless for us to try to pick article names in the belief that they do.
 * "they are ignoring Heroes, due to Japanese names, and this is the only one not ignoring it." - Other stuff not following policy does not mean we will discard or ignore the policy here. That being said, we're currently trying to confirm what the policy is. 15:37, May 30, 2018 (UTC)
 * Hereos was delisted, so no one right now will be able to see the name used in it to Google the mon. They could however see it in the card/medal list of CS, HM or NO under a Gallantmon name.Marcusbwfc (talk) 16:55, May 30, 2018 (UTC)
 * That's definitely worth considering for the policy, whether a publication has been removed from service. Again, though, I need to stress that the goal is not to "find a Gallantmon name", it is to have a consistent method for choosing names that readers can identify in a reliable manner. 17:34, May 30, 2018 (UTC)
 * I get that but I'm just the opinion, and every other article, is ignoring Heroes. Out of interest, if it was to become playable in the next game with a new name entirely, would that superceade due to it being fully playable vs just artwork slapped on a card that 95% of players wont see as collecting them in optional and they likely just put a whatever name without fully caring?Marcusbwfc (talk) 18:40, May 30, 2018 (UTC)
 * "is ignoring Heroes." -- and that's not with the full consent of the community, so it doesn't matter.
 * "would that superceade" -- no, the "intensity" of the cameo is not taken into consideration. 19:32, May 30, 2018 (UTC)