Talk:Digimon Tamers

There are very, very few references to Digi-modification or the use of cards on this page. Would it be okay to add an article about card use in the series and list digimodify usages throughout, or should those just be in the separate summary episode summary articles? I'm going to start rewatching Tamers soon, so I'm hopefully going to be able to do the episode summaries. I'm not ready to start working on this now, but I was wondering if that's something the community is interested in looking into. Rakamon 19:04, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
 * At one point on my PC I had a list of all the cards each character was shown to have, but it seems to have disappeared in the Great Crash. Digi-Modify would probably do well as its own article, and part of the Card namespace was to list things like this. I suppose the best way to go about it would be to have a Digi-Modify article explaining the concept, listing the cards and effects each one has in a section of the character's article, as well as mentioning it in the Card's article.
 * Just as a note—any interesting facts like this are appropriate for mention in the Card Wiki. I've only mentioned certain ones so far because they're the only ones I can rattle off. 19:24, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

I would suggest listing the cards most frequently used such as the Digivolution card or Hyper-chip card. Digigirls Rule!!! ANd DoNT u 4gEt iT 17:29, January 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm watching Tamers right now, so I could make a list of the cards used, who has them/used them, and their effect(s), which we could put in a Digi-Modify article/episode summaries. Rad140 Message 23:30, January 4, 2010 (UTC)

Adventure IS the series they know
" Digimon Tamers is created as a totally separate series from the previous two seasons. However, as I wrote in my early notes, I created the world view of Digimon Tamers as one that includes "Digimon Adventures" (Digimon Seasons 1 and 2)."

-http://www.konaka.com/alice6/tamers/character-e.html

The specific link you are refering to is Guilmon's section right? But for the sake of discussion; in -http://www.konaka.com/alice6/tamers/plan-e.html, the early notes, he is clearly divided on how to view the franchise; what he seems to settle on is that it is a source of inspiration, rather than the actual anime; i.e., if there is an anime (which I'm not sure), it inspired, not necessarily with the same characters or story, the children (ence Agumon). That, which I believe is confirmed by the quotes in series (calling themselves Tamers is the most obvious). But, from the same page you refered to "I felt that it would not be in the best interests of Digimon fans *or* the children now enjoying Digimon Tamers if these characters interacted with the world of Digimon Adventures, or with the characters from the previous series.". Then again, the only way to be sure was to ask Chiaki Konaka directly, by someone who knows Japanese (which I don't, and if I did I would be a bit embarassed to do so).


 * He mentions later that Takato's impetus for achieving Gallantmon was specifically Tai's example ("What could give Takato this strong impact? Who else but the main character of Digimon, Tai, and his partner Agumon?") The early notes specifically state that the main characters recognize the characters of Digimon Adventure ("However, the characters of "Digimon Adventures" seasons 1 and 2, whom children loved, will be the heroes of the children in their series, like mentors and idols. When the series has begun to turn, there may be some value in letting them appear."), but what he is talking about by saying they want to avoid the anime is that they don't want to have us watching the characters watch Digimon Adventure. Digimon Adventure is the anime that the Tamers watched, there is no doubt about that, but the point of the anime isn't some exercise in meta, and Konaka doesn't want it to become such (although he does remark on the surreal tone it would lend in the pre-Deva arc).(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  14:30, December 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * Early notes mean early; quite a few of the names and ideas didn't show up in the actual anime, and I specifically indicated the page to give an idea of the decision making process behind wether or not it was the actual Adventure anime. If you can recall the series, an agumon did show up in the Tamers anime as an inspiration, in the dream sequence of episode 35. There is doubt whether or not they watched the anime, because they never, at any point, discuss events of the anime or even use names that showed up on it; at best, it could be said they left it ambigous to make fans wonder (except in the English Dub, on which they assumed it to be true). Because of this, the comments scattered on the character pages and the presence of Ryo Akiama and Cyberdramon (him, specificaly; beeing the same Digimon of the Brave Tamer Wonderswan game would at least puzzle the Tamers; unless you think the game came after the D-Reaper invasion to explain his appearence, which would be rather confusing due to the strict timeline connection with our world) showing up, I'm led to believe that they watched an inspirational Digimon Series that isn't Adventure (if they watched any at all; they could have even watched Savers...not).
 * You can believe what you want, but Konaka specifically stated that the Tamers were familiar with the Digimon Adventure universe. Their lack of mentions of the events of the anime, as Konaka said, is to make Tamers it's own series, rather than a meta-rerun or rewatching of Adventure.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  19:04, December 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * We can believe what we want, since both of us can't produce definite proof (and merely indirect connections) of what we are trying to prove. Originally, I found a site from toei stating that it wasn't so, but that was a long time ago and I can't remember which was exactly, or even if it was translated from japanese. Thus, I can't really add any more to the discussion other than what was already said, summarily that Digimon Adventures influenced the series and that the series itself discredits that it is the actual Digimon Adventure Series.
 * ...No, Konaka explicitly says that Adventure is how they are familiar with Digimon.

" Digimon Tamers is created as a totally separate series from the previous two seasons. However, as I wrote in my early notes, I created the world view of Digimon Tamers as one that includes "Digimon Adventures" (Digimon Seasons 1 and 2)." "However, the characters of "Digimon Adventures" seasons 1 and 2, whom children loved, will be the heroes of the children in their series, like mentors and idols. When the series has begun to turn, there may be some value in letting them appear."

I don't see how those two quotes, at both ends of the development of Tamers, can be taken as anything other than "They watched the same cartoon we did, it just turned out that Digimon were coincidentally real, too."

The original in no way discredits the notion that the tamers watched Digimon Adventure, and the dub outright says they did. The idea that the tamers instead watched some kind of generic Digimon anime is nothing but bizarre and unfounded.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  22:05, December 1, 2010 (UTC)

Then, a different approach; what would mean to the series if:

- The Series they watched was the Digimon Adventure/02:
 * At seeing the d-arc (or however they called it), they would imediatly remember some game or something where the new digivice looked like the one we've the show, and not compare it to the anime; similarly, they would then remember that in that game or something they would be called digimon tamers (which is the name they give to players). Naturaly, any further references to anime, such as similar events or personalities were omitted (wilis's terriermon never existed). Because Ryo is from a tv show, after he won the card tournament (a year before Guilmon's realisation) he was inserted in a game (anode/cathode tamer), tying him to the end of digimon adventure. After he disappeared, a game tying him to the then current Adventure 02 (tag tamers and D-1 Tamers) appeared. The last game was created after the D-Reaper invasion, since cyberdramon and monodramon appear in it (the game designers saw them on TV), as well as the the other Tamers to tie him to the Digimon Tamers universe and creating a memetic legend. Thus Ryo's personality comes from staying in the digital world for so long. Either that, or he is from the Adventure Universe, thus all the anime and games events were overseen from a omniscient beeing (akioshi hongo?) that published the anime and games just because he could, and because nobody would believe it to be real.(except ryo, but it isn't like he likes digimon enough to win a card tournament, anyway). Aditionaly, the agumon that Takato was inspired by was Tai's Agumon.

- The Series they watched (if they watched any at all) gave the same inspiration that Digimon Adventure/02 gave us:
 * That series probably was called digimon tamers, used the same device we see in our digimon tamers (thus instant recognition of it) because it was based on the wild bunch's research (including shibumi's). There was a character wearing goggles that was partered to an agumon, which inspired Takato. Ryo came from the adventure universe, but nobody knows that (dimension travel is complicated enough to restart a whole family in a new universe with no prior memories). We don't know what else happened in those series, so we don't know how else it did affect them.

Honestly, both are possible due to how little reference we get; In the first case, I even find Ryo's backstory deliciously cynical. However, the little details (character quotes, attitudes, most of which I don't remenber) as well as occam's razor lead me to believe the second possibility. And I'm not basing myself in the dub because continuity errors are not unheard of (then again, with what little they had, I concede that for this season they really tried their best).
 * You are free to believer either of them, but you would be wrong to believe the second. Especially since Konaka explicitly says they watched Adventure, and that they would bring in Adventure characters towards the end of the show...surprise surprise, it's what they did.
 * Basically, you are absolutely free to use the second interpretation in your own fan fiction or whatever, but since it is explicitly false, don't add it to the articles.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  17:31, December 4, 2010 (UTC)

I'm not adding anything because I have no proof. But the whole point behind the demonstration is that it simply doesn't fit. It makes no sense in show that they watched Adventure/02, because of the way characters are portrayed, their reactions, etc (to be perfectly honest, it looks more likely that there even wasn't an anime to speak of, but maybe my memory is at fault). Except it makes sense if we admit they were inspired by a Adventure/02 Anime (in fact, events in Tamers are closer to Adventure than 02, if one thinks about it). Beeing the actual actual show seems to be more of an idea played around that was scrapped. But I could be wrong anyway, and it is perfectly legitimate to say that the english dub considered the tamers to have watched Adventure/02 (no doubt in that), and since this wiki is focused on the english dub, I guess the point of this talk is over. 21:17 GMT
 * Yes, they do not comment on the anime very often; they are much more focused on the card game, really. They also don't have the toys, and the only video games they ever play is the v-pet based one Henry has. Like I said earlier, Konaka specifically did this to avoid a meta situation that would amount to nothing but fanservice and intellectual, well, masturbation. He wanted to explore the actual idea of "what if you found out it was real", without wasting his time reiterating the previous season and relying on it like Adventure 02 did.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  06:02, December 5, 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure about the timeline, though.
In the entry related to battle of adventurers', it is stated that the only plothole is that it took place in summer vacation. But didn't the devas appear before summer? Assuming that the school trip where the Tamers fought Sinduramon (the rooster deva) was before summer vacation, and that Calumon was only kidnapped months later, in the autumm.