Talk:Paildramon

Name Deriving
Somehow I doubt the name means bucket dragon monster. With attacks like desperado blaster it has a stronger connection to westerns.

ZGWolf 19:32, December 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * Click the link. 04:23, December 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * He's still not a bucket.86.189.14.71 19:22, November 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Read the note. Lanate (talk) 21:05, November 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * The problem is that both the and the page linked in said talk state, in no uncertain terms, that "pail" as collective noun for wasps should be avoided in favor of the more common collective nouns nest, colony, and swarm depending on the context.  Probably better to find an alternative meaning for the name.Chimera-gui (talk) 04:57, March 15, 2016 (UTC)
 * That wiktionary notes that it is archaic does not mean that it is not the most likely name meaning. It's a dragon crossed with a wasp. 21:07, March 15, 2016 (UTC)
 * Point taken but even so, the fact that it's called Piledramon in some languages makes me think that the name is more likely based on the since Stingmon's javelin-like arm Spikes carrying over into Paildramon and are in fact one of the its two main forms of attack, the other being its signature Desperado Blaster. Chimera-gui (talk) 23:37, March 15, 2016 (UTC)
 * That would require the names in English and Japanese to be pretty bad misspellings, and doesn't mirror how it's profile talks about it being a cross of a dragon and an insect, like how Dinobeemon's profile calls it a "Terrible Bee". Can you find any reason why it would be romanized as "pail"? 01:29, March 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * The characters "パイル" translate to pile with the romanization of "Pairu". And given how "ru" is typically changed to "l" during translation as in the case of Palmon, "Pairu" can be spelled "Pail" even though it should actually be "pile". Chimera-gui (talk) 01:54, March 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * I can confirm this as well and the Japanese are known to misspell English words quite often, especially in older anime. This Page also shows the origins of Paildramon's name. The person who made this page, Megchan, is actually Grace Anderson, who was the one who translated the original scripts for the English dubbers of the show.--Hika Yagami (talk) 02:24, March 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * That's her guess at it, though, and there's a lot of stuff that we've found more likely translations/etymologies for since. If his name was supposed to be a reference to him having "piles", it would make sense to see a reference to that somewhere in any of his literature (something like "Its mighty piles skewer enemies!"). Instead, the profiles consistently harp on him being part dragon, part insect.
 * Look, if "pail" wasn't a term related to a creature that his profiles always harp on him containing, "pile" would be the next best guess. But given that "pail" is totally a wasp-related word, "pile" just isn't that convincing. The heraldic pile might be worth mentioning as an alternate, possible etymology, given Paildramon's glowing red spikes when it attacks with them, but pail should definitely remain because it makes way more sense. 02:45, March 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * Here's the problem with line of thinking and the reason we don't use what's stated in the profiles as the basis for names. We've had profiles that had little if anything to do with a name's origin before (Duftmon's profile makes no mention of it having any sort of fragrance for example) so why should this particular element of the profile be treated as anything other than just world-building fluff? Especially since it could very well be a reference to the fact that Paildramon is basically a dragon whose physiology is part insect do to Stingmon's influence. Chimera-gui (talk) 03:37, March 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * That's not an accurate description of any sort of policy we have. For example, Duftmon's profile makes frequent use of German terms, indicating that his name is meant to be a German word. A theme is made evident. I'm not saying that the name always has to be mentioned in the profile, lord knows most of them aren't, I'm saying we have a perfectly cromulent etymology that has a clear link to the Digimon's design, jives with the theme that is harped upon in each of Paildramon's literature, and jives with its twin, Dinobeemon, having an explicit reference to its own etymology in its profile. It is much, much more convincing than "it's a misspelling of a totally different word that is an archaic term for the shape of the things it uses as a backup attack". Pilums or heraldric piles definitely could be part of the etymology, but it's simply not as convincing as the wasp etymology. 14:34, March 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * That being said, if we want to have a community discussion as to softening the wording of etymology sections on the whole (adding stuff like "poss." for profiles where the etymology hasn't been explicitly confirmed by the literature), that's a fair shot, and I'd like to restate that I have little objection to adding a note about the pilums/heraldric piles to this page. 14:36, March 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm gonna write a hidden draft of the new format for Paildramon's page so the administrators build on/fully implement it and we can get exactly what we want for the etymology. Chimera-gui (talk) 02:07, March 17, 2016 (UTC)
 * "Pail" may be a wasp related word, probably not, but either way, Stingmon doesn't look like a wasp and plenty of insects that aren't bees or wasps have stingers. And I don't think any of them are called "pails" of whatever insects. In addition, the dub pronunciation of Paildramon was along the lines of "pa-eel-dramon" (not "pale-dramon") which, while being a very American pronunciation of the Japanese name, is also in line with what seems to be the intended pronunciation of "pile-dramon", which itself sounds like it's a Japanese pun on "piledriver". --Aozf05 (talk) 02:00, June 9, 2020 (UTC)
 * "Pail" appears to be a mid-2000s creation that has since been discredited, so fair enough. That being said, Dinobeemon makes it pretty clear that Stingmon is meant to be Wasp-based. 13:21, June 9, 2020 (UTC)
 * https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PileBunker --
 * The Japanese for "piledriver" is パイルドライバー, which matches the "Paildra" part of its name. I don't remember: does it use a close-range spike punch kind of attack? --Raijinili (talk) 20:06, October 18, 2019 (UTC)
 * PileVolcamon would be PailVolca if it was that.Marcusbwfc (talk) 21:16, October 18, 2019 (UTC)
 * That's not how Japanese translations and localizations work. The simple answer to your supposed rebuttal is different translators translate things differently. Paildramon was localized a couple years before PileVolcamon was even created. And to answer the previous user's question, yes, Paildramon (ugh) does have an attack in which he "stabs or slashes with the extensible spears in his wrists." --Aozf05 (talk) 02:00, June 9, 2020 (UTC)
 * (1) knock off the aggression. (2) That's not what they were asking. They're asking about an actual piledriver attack, like what's used to kill cows, or the attack Renamon tried to use on Guilmon. 13:21, June 9, 2020 (UTC)
 * (1) I'm not being aggressive. (2) I don't see how my answer doesn't answer their question. A "spike punch kind of attack" is more or less what Esgrima/Sting Strike is. The arm spikes can be used as lances, as this wiki says, or according to the other wiki (which I quoted) can also be used as a stabbing attack, which is like a piledriver considering the spikes are extendable. --Aozf05 (talk) 17:59, June 9, 2020 (UTC)
 * You may not have intended it but there is an aggressive tone to your comments especially when you already, rightly, noted that different translators translate things differently meaning Paildramon may very well have been derived from the romanization of pile as "pairu" at the time as was mentioned earlier. Please try to dial that back in the future before it causes actual problems. Chimera-gui (talk) 22:54, June 9, 2020 (UTC)
 * could still include the "may also be from" for the other possible meaning.Marcusbwfc (talk) 01:46, June 10, 2020 (UTC)
 * "simple answer to your supposed rebuttal" is a needlessly aggressive way to phrase things, especially to someone who was being completely polite and in good faith. I'm not going to tiptoe around this -- if you keep up behavior like that, you will be removed from the project.
 * No, that's not what Esgrima/Sting Strike is. A pile driver is a specific type of device with a specific type of action. Esgrima/Sting Strike would be a pilum "sort of attack", but not a piledriver. A piledriver sort of attack would look like what Renamon did with the Heavy Metal card in Tamers, as I stated. Paildramon, at this point, does not have attacks that are specifically like that; instead, all it has is the "pile" part, as in the spike itself, not what it does with it.
 * In any case -- now that dictionaries have explicitly retracted "pail" as referring to wasps, then as I said earlier the next best explanation is the pile thing Chimera had talked about. 14:08, June 10, 2020 (UTC)