DigimonWiki talk:General guidelines

Starting out
As noted on Talk:Main Page, this is a basic start for our general guidelines. It's not complete yet, but at least it's something. -- Ned Scott 23:14, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Naming
Okay, centralized location. Please verify the below and revise your votes as needed.


 * Previous discussions
 * Talk:Babydmon (March 2011)
 * Talk:Marsmon (August 2015)
 * Talk:Omnimon Zwart (February 2016)
 * Talk:MedievalDukemon (February 2016)
 * Talk:Omnimon (February 2017)
 * Talk:SnowGoblimon (March 2017)


 * Example:
 * Original policy would give us Marusumon (current tentative support by all mods)
 * "Most common localization" policy would give us Marsmon (supported: Kryten, Lanate)
 * "Most common localization + Consideration Towards Consistent Trend in New Localizations Amendment" policy would give us Marsmon (supported: Chimera-gui)
 * "Most common localization + Inertia (Only override name when a localization is used in a strictly greater number of works than current name)" policy would give us Marsmon (supported: Lanate)
 * "First localization ever" policy would give us Marsmon
 * "Latest localization ever" policy would give us ???
 * Original policy + One-off Gibberish Exclusionary Policy Amendment would give us Marsmon (supported: Kryten, Lanate, Chimera-gui, G-SANtos)
 * Original policy + Fusion and Cyber Sleuth Medals Don't Count Unless They Have To Amendment would give us Marsmon (supported: Kryten)


 * Names in question
 * Daemon/Demon/Creepymon
 * Devimon/Darkmon
 * Monzaemon/Teddymon
 * Zhuqiamon/Xuanwumon/Ebonwumon
 * MedievalDukemon/MedicalGallantmon
 * Babydmon/Bebydomon
 * Wendigomon/Wendimon/Endigomon
 * Phelesmon/Feresmon
 * SnowGoburimon/SnowGoblimon
 * Yggdrasill/King Drasil
 * Bastemon/Persiamon/Beastmon
 * Chaosdramon/Chaosdromon
 * Volcdramon/Volcdoramon
 * Volcdoramon is due to Reference Book so I don't think it counts, unless the "DRB romanization overrules all" rule is also up for discussion
 * Heroes.
 * I'll take it back then. Lanate (talk) 02:30, August 4, 2017 (UTC)
 * Mermaidmon/Mermaimon
 * Volcanomon/Volcamon
 * AncientVolcanomon/Volcanomon/AncientVolcamon
 * PileVolcanomon/PileVolcamon
 * Apocalymon/Apokarimon
 * Arukadhimon/Arkadimon/Arcadiamon
 * Bearmon/Kumamon
 * Blimpmon/Brimpmon
 * Crusadermon/LoadKnightmon/LordKnightmon
 * DotFalcomon/Dfalcomon
 * Lucemon Shadowlord Mode/Lucemon Wild 2nd Mode/Lucemon Satan Mode
 * KaratukiNumemon/KaratsukiNumemon/ShellNumemon
 * Feel free to add more unsavory options

Outcomes

 * Original policy
 * Daemon
 * Devimon
 * Monzaemon
 * Zhuqiaomon is a bird
 * Ebonwumon is a turtle
 * MedicalDukemon
 * Marusumon
 * Wendigomon
 * Babydmon
 * King Drasil


 * Earliest localization ever
 * Darkmon
 * Teddymon
 * Marsmon
 * Endigomon
 * Yggdrasill
 * Marsmon
 * Endigomon
 * Yggdrasill
 * Yggdrasill

. ..

Discussion/votes
Okay, what just happened with HiAndromon is why I am not okay with any "latest localization" policy that doesn't have some caveat. From a maintenance standpoint, it's a complete nightmare, especially since we use whatever the current page name is across the wiki; repeated name changes end up either requiring monumental cleanup or inconsistencies across the board. Lanate (talk) 01:53, August 9, 2017 (UTC)
 * We are trying to make sure that the wikia is as accurate as possible and that means using the newest names barring idiotic ones. That requires more work yes, but that's part of the job and we should not be afraid to move pages when necessary. Chimera-gui (talk) 05:59, August 9, 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, that's for the current conception of "accurate". As long as we're consistent, accurate could also mean "name most well-known to fandom", or even say fuck it all and go with the Japanese names for the species, in-medium names for the characters. 15:52, August 9, 2017 (UTC)
 * Fair point but even then, we'd still have to rename pages and files accordingly no matter what which is the point I'm trying to get across. Chimera-gui (talk) 16:37, August 9, 2017 (UTC)
 * I prefer naming rules that have more inertia than not simply because it is not only annoying but also confusing to repeatedly move primary pages. Lanate (talk) 02:43, August 10, 2017 (UTC)


 * Okay, I don't remember when I supported "first localization ever", and I'm too lazy to reread all these discussions now, but I'll change my vote to "whatever doesn't give us Darkmon and Teddymon", because I'm sure these are the One True Great Cringe that nobody here wants. 21:57, August 10, 2017 (UTC)

It looks like we all support the original policy plus a one-off exclusionary amendment. How do we want to go about that one? I'm learning toward this: We can ignore a spelling that's used only once as long as a valid dub name otherwise exists for it. If that spelling is used more than once, we have to seriously consider it. Like the following: Any comment, objections, concerns? Lanate (talk) 02:02, September 6, 2017 (UTC)
 * We can ignore Marusumon (Digimon Fusion) in favor of Marsmon (Digimon World 3).
 * We can't ignore King Drasil because it's used in Digimon Data Squad and Cyber Sleuth.
 * I can agree with that but to your earlier comment about want name inertia I ask how long should this inertia be? I do understand why there'd be hesitance to renaming a page in light of that incident but if like in the case of HighAndromon there is no obvious objection (since the meaning is still the same and in fact clearer), there is very little reason to not change what name we use beyond inertia.  The problems you and Kryten voiced, while concerns, were/are always going to happen regardless of our policies as Appli Monsters has made abundantly clear. It's unfortunate yes but that's the nature of the beast and barring a policy change within Bandai itself, that's not to change anytime soon.  As someone on tumblr rightly noted, Pokémon is described as Apollonian while Digimon is raw, unabashed Dionysian in nature: here
 * My mention of inertia ties into the use of most common dubbed name. We'd only move a page if the name we're moving it to has been used in strictly more cases than the current. Like, if the current page is HiAndromon and HiAndromon has been used in 5 pieces of media, we'd only move to HighAndromon if HighAndromon has been used in 6 pieces of media. That it has to be strictly more means inertia. Lanate (talk) 03:09, September 7, 2017 (UTC)
 * Sound good in theory but I have some reservations given that there are Digimon that rarely appear in media to begin with. Chimera-gui (talk) 06:04, September 7, 2017 (UTC)
 * Can you elaborate on those reservations? I mean, well, we already have a host of Digimon who only appear in a piece of single localized media. Lanate (talk) 01:35, September 8, 2017 (UTC)
 * The big reservation I have is that so few Digimon games get released outside of Japan in the first place, there's really not much point to having inertia especially when it runs counter to our actual policy (Example if an anime dub uses HighAndromon, we would have to use it according to the rules since there is no reason to not do so beyond inertia). There is also the issue of Beastmon whose Japanese name is used Cyber Sleuth as well as Heroes, presumably Masters, and I'm almost certain was being used outside of DW3 at the time as well meaning that had Fusion not been dubbed, we'd likely be using Bastemon because that's the policy. Chimera-gui (talk) 04:53, September 8, 2017 (UTC)
 * We still have our inertia, and I think I'd rather have stability over the newest flavor of the month. And I totally would have supported using Bastemon if Bastemon proved to be the most common dubbed name. Lanate (talk) 03:14, September 9, 2017 (UTC)
 * That's just it though: We're not using the most common names, we've only agreed to implement an exclusionary amendment for objectionable names, something I support only as long as it's not being misused. Beastmon is a borderline case and Laylamon, while technically one-off as well, isn't bad enough to warrant exclusion do to Layla having the same etymological root as Lilith and having a  that lines up with Laylamon as a character.  In fact hilariously enough, the name was unquestioningly accepted to the point that Kryten actually forgot to include it on the list of discussions and his only complaint at the time was exactly what you're arguing about, name inertia solely for its own sake, and even then he pointed out that any exceptions are going to be arbitrary by-definition and thus should be avoided whenever possible.  And while there have been subsequent issues since then, his arguments at the time are still completely valid now hence why I've been extremely careful about having a clear cut logic behind my own shared name amendment, eliminating redundancies in the Other Names section, and applying it both ways. Chimera-gui (talk) 04:21, September 9, 2017 (UTC)
 * I think we're talking past each other. In this vote section, I've only been arguing an inertia clause in context of a "Most common localization" rule. Unless you're referring to the inertia inherent in our current policy? Lanate (talk) 02:56, September 13, 2017 (UTC)
 * I was and fair enough. I'm just worried about the potential for abuse of such a clause. This is especially concerning do to the prominence of fan localisations following the logic of past dubs, FlameWizardmon and SnowGoblimon being two notable ones prior to Cyber Sleuth and Next 0rder respectively as well as MedievalGallantmon, which coupled with the lack of official media and more problematically a lack consistent localisation within the media we do have muddy the water on determining common localisation considerably. Chimera-gui (talk) 03:34, September 13, 2017 (UTC)

To ask my own question, how do we handle names use by both English and Japanese media now? Heroes has exposed a pretty big flaw with the current system of listing names thanks to its case and spelling shenanigans that honestly rival Fusion in my opinion which we are going to have to review in detail.

The best solution I've figured out is to institute a rule stating that primary names should not be listed in the Other Names section because they happen to appear in both English and Japanese media. Omegamon for example should not be listed because of Heroes and Next 0rder. What are your thoughts on this? Chimera-gui (talk) 03:38, September 6, 2017 (UTC)
 * I can get behind that. If it's considered a primary name, we usually go "Japanese and some American English" or something like that now, anyway. Lanate (talk) 03:09, September 7, 2017 (UTC)
 * Okay, did a quick sweep of any and all primary names in the Other Names section: RedVegimon, UlforceV-dramon, PaunChessmon Black, PaunChessmon White, AtlurKabuterimon Blue, BlackWereGarurumon, MetalGreymon Virus Species, AncientWisemon, and Algomon Ultimate have been kept as they're just different enough from the primary names. AeroV-dramon and AeroVdramon, Metal Tyranomon, Ancientvolcanomon, Beowolfmon, Flarelizamon, Doruguremon, MachineDramon, Death-X-Dorugoramon,Death-X-Doruguremon, Death-X-Dorugamon, Cannonbeemon, AtlurKabuterimon for MegaKabuterimon (Red), Deathmon for Ghoulmon (Black), and anything used in the Digimon Frontier manhua are going to need review.  I've also elected to treat "Lucemon" for Lucemon Chaos Mode and "Lowemon" as simultaneously Japanese/English names. Chimera-gui (talk) 06:04, September 7, 2017 (UTC)
 * On the subject of Other Names, I thought that if it had a section under Etymologies, it doesn't need an Other Names parameter for redundancy reasons. Lanate (talk) 00:33, September 9, 2017 (UTC)
 * I would think so as well but unfortunately G-SANtos did not agree with that assessment: here This is why I wanted his and Kryten's opinions on this matter and why I list names used in the Digimon Frontier manhua under need for review, even when they fall under usage of the original Japanese name in localized media such as with Kazemon and Grumblemon. Chimera-gui (talk) 01:00, September 9, 2017 (UTC)

Heroes
Since it's a known fact that Heroes uses the Japanese names, would anyone be opposed to just treating them as simultaneously Japanese/English names and only include them in the Other Names section if they differ from the official DRB romanizations? (e.g. the Gizumon line, and AncientWisemon, Sakuyamon (Miko)) Chimera-gui (talk) 14:13, August 8, 2017 (UTC)
 * I'd support that. Lanate (talk) 02:46, August 10, 2017 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'd like Kryten and G-SANtos' thoughts on this as well. Chimera-gui (talk) 06:36, August 10, 2017 (UTC)
 * Do we have a list somewhere? 15:44, August 10, 2017 (UTC)
 * Also, can we move this to the central discussion page? My mind's frazzled enough as it is and having this discussion on multiple fronts over the course of years leaves me in a permanent state of confusion. 15:44, August 10, 2017 (UTC)


 * Unfortuantely, I don't have a central list as it was Charles who was adding them though you can look at his list of contributions to get an idea of why I brought this up. Chimera-gui (talk) 16:51, August 10, 2017 (UTC)
 * I was using the wiki of Heroes! as the main source, so I can try to make a full compilation if necessary.


 * On the other hand, as for the discussion itself, I honestly wouldn't know what to say. Of course they seem to do a literal translation of the names more than a dubbing, but on the other hand, there are some odd choices like SaintGargomon or PaunChessmon, and other inconsistencies like V-dramon and AeroVdramon.--Charles.929 (talk) 20:56, August 10, 2017 (UTC)
 * PaunChessmon is the Official romanization used by the DRB for both variants. As I said before, names that are different from the DRB romanizations should be listed for the sake of completion but repeats should be treated as the romanization. This is compounded by the fact that Heroes has an issue with letter case like the DRB which needs to be compensated for. Chimera-gui (talk) 22:28, August 10, 2017 (UTC)
 * For why I'm suggesting this, the Etymology section for each species' page can handle this burden by adding "and used in Japanese and some American English media." to the Japanese name.
 * As an aside, Digimon Heroes!/Collection has a list of all names at launch. Lanate (talk) 02:11, August 11, 2017 (UTC)
 * That list is going to need updating to line up with what's been released since. Chimera-gui (talk) 03:35, August 11, 2017 (UTC)
 * This is not what I understood myself to be agreeing to. I thought we were saying that the English names that were identical to the Japanese names would not be included, not vice versa. 02:35, September 13, 2017 (UTC)
 * I had said that but when I noticed the reverse had happened as well, I decided that this should go both ways and be a more general policy rather than exclusively about Heroes. Chimera-gui (talk) 02:47, September 13, 2017 (UTC)
 * I get that but I don't agree with that as the policy. To me that suggests crossflow when things seem to more be in one direction. 22:22, September 21, 2017 (UTC)
 * Except we know that the crossflow isn't exclusively one direction, Calumon and KaratsukiNumemon may be the ones at the center of this but they are hardly the only instances of Japanese media sharing a name with western media:
 * Omnimon has been used in Japanese media
 * Agunimon has been used in Japanese media
 * Lowemon spelled with a single "e" and no "u" appears in both Japanese and western media
 * Imperialdramon's Fighter and Paladin Modes have omitted the colon in their names on Japanese cards
 * Lucemon Larva has omitted the colon in its name on a Japanese card
 * This is why I cannot agree with the "regardless of localized names" part of you proposal. That is just going to create more problems if any other romanizations that happen to be the western names appear and I do not want this particular issue to crop up again, especially because of a clause that is completely arbitrary in my honest opinion. Chimera-gui (talk) 00:27, September 22, 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't see how this is a problem that demands treatment. The English name in the infobox is, by default, open to frequent change. The Japanese name in the infobox is supposed to be presented as more firm, and a separate entity. Covering every alternate name, even if it includes a name that matches the current English localized name, provides our readers with more comprehensive information.
 * At the end of the day, I want our readers to be able to identify a full list of the official names for a creature from the Japanese franchise. I don't see how omitting a single entry does that. 17:16, September 22, 2017 (UTC)
 * Kryten you know as well as I do that dub names do not change that frequently. We have had dub names be in place for decades with some still in place to this day (e.g. Centarumon). The mass name changes was a very recent thing and is not enough to justify this for me. Say if we adopted Omegamon as the official English name, we would simply move the name Omnimon under the Other Names section like we did with Persiamon but until that time comes, we do not need it listed there since it's still the current English name.  You simply do not need redundancy for readers to have a full list of the official names and in fact the arbitrary redundancy here is completely wasteful. Chimera-gui (talk) 21:23, September 22, 2017 (UTC)
 * Aegiochusmon: Holly invalidates the prior assumption that Heroes names are just the Japanese romanizations, so we have to reevaluate based on that. For my part, I'm still supporting the original policy of "first anime dub name, then first other dub name", and any treatment of "most common name" would *have* to distinguish between different works in the same setting (i.e. Fusion the anime is separate from Fusion Fighters the mobile app, or the card game, or Super Digica Taisen). 16:10, April 24, 2018 (UTC)
 * Except anime the only time we use first dub name, everyone else uses latest name:


 * First American-localization name given in anime.
 * Latest American-localization name given in manga or video games.
 * Latest American-localization name given in other media.
 * Latest other English-language name given in any media.
 * Latest English spelling given in Digimon Reference Book
 * Latest English spelling given elsewhere on Digimon Web
 * Latest English spelling given elsewhere in Japanese publications
 * Estimated English spelling based on Japanese spelling of name.
 * In fact I'm certain     has pointed this out before. Chimera-gui (talk) 16:44, April 24, 2018 (UTC)
 * That may very well be how things have practically turned out due to lax enforcement over multiple talk pages. I'm saying the policy I support, which is that for dub names, I'd prefer to use first names, due to the name over the franchise not having any kind of real stability in the West, and I don't want article titles changing all the time.
 * Whatever our policy ends up being for alternate names, I think we need to specify what we mean by "some", either in the visible text or as a comment. We have too much citogenesis in the past of this wiki, we need to be making every effort to prevent it.
 * Also, we still need to distinguish Heroes! from being treated as "Japanese romanized names", and we need to make sure we're distinguishing stuff like the Fusion-themed media from each other. 17:14, April 26, 2018 (UTC)
 * The problem is that first name across the board will leave us with Goblimon and SnowGoburimon and I am utter against that since I want name consistency for subspecies do to the fact that, as I mentioned previously, there is a higher level of stability when it comes to dub names than you seem to think. Additionally, one single outlier does not negate the fact that the majority of the names in Heroes are in fact the Japanese names albeit with some being formatted differently which itself still qualifies as names being shared as far as I'm concerned between Japanese and English media and was why I even suggested that we should note ways the same name can be formatted in the first place.  We can note specific examples of a name being used though once we can tabulate what media uses what names. Chimera-gui (talk) 18:58, April 26, 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm going to say that I care a little less about maintaining that kind of consistency, especially in the context of moving Omnimon to Omegamon.


 * And we actually don't really use latest... We tend to use earliest video game too and then put virtual pets beneath video games. Lanate (talk) 02:40, April 27, 2018 (UTC)
 * "name consistency for subspecies" -- this is not a concern that we have had before, and in most places, it's not going to be possible without artificial dubbing, which we've always been strictly against. For example, MedievalDukemon, the closest to name consistency would be MedicalGallantmon. Then, Volcamon and AncientVolcanomon, etc.
 * "one single outlier does not negate" -- it negates the claim that the game is simply using the Japanese names, full stop. (And if I'm reading the previous discussion right, we already had counterexamples in the form of AncientWisemon, the Gizumons, and Sakuyamon (Miko)). I'm a strong proponent that any rule we define needs to be fully honest about itself, and not just expect the readers to ignore examples that conflict with the rule.
 * "than you seem to think" -- can you please tone down the attacks? I've endeavored to only respond based on the topics themselves, here and on the chat, but I keep seeing a lot of attacks on good faith discussion, and it's honestly depleting my energy to participate in this project. 12:02, April 27, 2018 (UTC)
 * We have uses of both Volcanomon and PileVolcanomon in English media: http://digitalindex.ultimatedigimon.com/digimonccg/DigimonCCG_pages/Starter2/DM-0063_Volcanomon.jpg http://digitalindex.ultimatedigimon.com/digimonccg/DigimonCCG_pages/Booster3/DM-165_PileVolcanomon.jpg
 * It it willful denial to say that that the names in Heroes are not derived from the Japanese names. Remember that many believed that AncientWisetmon's name is AncientWisemon prior to the DRB establishing it differently. Gizumon can be considered another situation of alternate formatting like Imperialdramon's modes, particularly for the later stages which basically just swap a colon for a hyphen. A similar case can be made for Sakuyamon (Miko) as well given Daemon (Mantled).
 * Chimera-gui (talk) 23:43, April 27, 2018 (UTC)
 * And using Volcanomon for the subset name would require another revision to our naming policy, one which I don't think would be supportable, especially since those aren't the frequently used names.
 * It's not willful denial. Dude, quit it with that. The existence of contradicting examples means the wiki cannot claim, with honesty, that the names in set A are equal to the names in set B. They may be largely similar, but that's honestly true for a lot of the games, like Story or Dawn/Dusk. The names that are different than the Japanese sources will always be the minority. 11:36, April 30, 2018 (UTC)
 * I would personally go with 'most used'. So for example, Hououmon has Tamers, CS, HM and ASR. Then you go down her list and like 50 other appearances are Pheonixmon, as well as Tri which is anime too. With Tamers and Tri tied at one anime each, I feel the games would then be weighted in. Most used then would remove arguments on renames, cuz it'd take a really long time for something to be used that has been used for 20 years etc.Marcusbwfc (talk) 22:26, August 3, 2018 (UTC)


 * I can agree with "most used", but to be reliable about it we'd probably have to set up a google doc listing the name used in each localized source.
 * I also would like to know how things would be "weighted" if one source (ex. an anime season) uses multiple names. Does it get weighted based on #of episodes name used in, or just split evenly no matter how frequently the name is used within the source? 13:56, August 6, 2018 (UTC)
 * Personally, I would do it for 'series'. So using Hououmon, Tamers and Tri equal one series each. If going by episodes, the films count as one each for Tri? slightly harsh although I think Hououmon is only used in one episode of Tamers? even with episodes, Pheonixmon is in the final three Tri films which would be three episodes to one. I personally though, prefer counting each series as one. It makes it easier that way rather than scouring the series for every single episode. If anime is what you wanna use for primary source, then fair enough (though Laylamon will forever trigger me) but I think if the anime is tied on names, using the games after that would be a good tie breaker. Doing that, like I said has only Tamers, Cyber Sleuth, Hacker's Memory and All-Star Rumble (even when Links copy pasted the Field Guide of Cyber Sleuth, they still used the name Pheonixmon) for Hououmon and like 9 billion for Phoenixmon. Hououmon's article is actually really confusing because the main name is listed as Hououmon but then if you read her page... Hououmon barely shows up. I'm too lazy to count them right now, but it's probably something like 95% to Pheonixmon. Do we need the names for every Mon in existence? or just ones that are 'disputed'? if you provide me a list of the ones to make into a list, I can do my best. Never really used Google Docs though, so perhaps on each species talk page? another one off the top of my head hat would end up changing is Chrysalimon, as it has that in Tamers, Kurisarimon in Data Sqaud and then Kurisarimon in like 95% of games. The only one I am aware of it using Chrsalimon (I prefer Kurisarimon cuz I can actually spell it lmfao) is in Next Order as well as Links (who appears to have used the Next Order names, whilst copying the Cyber Sleuth, so "Omegamon" is used too. In addition, it would also lead to ShellNumemon and MedicalGallantmon (twice because loldamn Cyber Sleuth/Hacker's Memory didn't fix a single error)Marcusbwfc (talk) 02:29, August 7, 2018 (UTC)


 * While we have to make a decision for one name to name the article, each section uses whatever name that publication uses, so Hououmon's article is not an accident.
 * I would strongly prefer we at least have a list for any Digimon with multiple names, to head these arguments off at the pass in the future.
 * I would also recommend getting in touch with Bandai Namco and seeing if you can suggest some corrections to the names. Might help. 12:44, August 7, 2018 (UTC)
 * What if we make a page on here with the names for each one etc? I can get started on it. I'd do Hououmon, ShellNumemon, MedicialGallantmon, Kurisarimon for now and then maybe brose down the list for alternate names etc. I'm assuming it would need to be a Fan: page, such as Fan:Contested Dub names.Marcusbwfc (talk) 19:17, August 7, 2018 (UTC)
 * A google doc would work best. 19:58, August 7, 2018 (UTC)
 * https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UrpYPvJ909Ze7Eq3uQDoTQVE4C_uu3HkoqgAiPiqnnM/edit?usp=sharing I don't want just anyone to be able to edit it, so I would want admins, I guess, to get access. View only for now. Any random getting access can vandalise and IDK if I'd be able to restore it. For Digimon Battle, there doesn't seem to be any where to get a list of names, this is what I can find - but like the DMO wiki, I suppose it can be taken with salt. https://digimonbattle.wikia.com/wiki/Digimon_Battle_Online_Wiki Marcusbwfc (talk) 19:25, August 8, 2018 (UTC)
 * This is closer to what I meant. We can go through and just inpu names given in any game/anime/cards/manga/other, and I can whip up formulas for it to auto-spit out the names that each policy (excluding the editor discretion ones) would output. 16:29, August 21, 2018 (UTC)
 * I requested access. I can manually add some of the namesMarcusbwfc (talk) 18:49, August 21, 2018 (UTC)

ShellNumemon
As of Digimon Links, ShellNumemon seems to have been used four times, KaratsukiNumemon has been used twice, and KaratukiNumemon was only used in Heroes. What should we do here? Chimera-gui (talk) 04:25, October 15, 2017 (UTC)
 * I would put this in the section above. It depends on which policy we choose to go with -- currently it would remain Karatsuki. 13:11, October 16, 2017 (UTC)

Romanization

 * Previous discussion
 * Talk:Four Great Dragons

Attack name localization and continuity-specific attacks

 * Previous discussion
 * Talk:Gomamon
 * Talk:Apollomon
 * Talk:Meicoomon

The policy I've been using is most common localization in anime > most common in video games > most common in card games. I think MetalGarurumon has the most research I've ever done for attacks. Lanate (talk) 03:00, August 5, 2017 (UTC)
 * I would prefer to just go with "first localization", using the same order that you did, just from the desire to not have to tabulate every single attack usage after I've figured out which one was first. 16:31, August 21, 2018 (UTC)

Etymology sections

 * Previous discussion
 * Talk:Paildramon

Dawn Dusk numbering
Can someone please imgur a screenshot of what numbering the damn thing uses? I'm tired of this going back and forth. 18:13, August 9, 2017 (UTC)
 * Here. Lanate (talk) 02:43, August 10, 2017 (UTC)

Some media leave out the Blank
Is it really necessary to include the Species name with with whatever indentifier omitted in the Other Names section when the phrase "Some media leave out the ___" is already included in the Etymologies section in some way? Chimera-gui (talk) 20:12, October 12, 2017 (UTC)
 * Registering my strong disapproval for stating "some media" without specifying the media, either visibly or invisibly. The whole reason we started the other names thing in the first place was to have more accountability and less handwaving. 11:38, April 30, 2018 (UTC)

Video Game Attacks
So the policy states that Video Game attacks are left out due to them being inheritable but it's not actually that many games that have them as so. Well, most moves are, but pretty much all games have attacks that are exclusive to a Mon, or a Mon and one of the Palette Swaps (Such as MetalGarurumon and BlackMetalGarurumon both having Garurumon Tomahawk and Ice Wolf Claw). From what I've played, only the DS games have special attacks as inheritable. The other games I've played, Digimon World, Digimon World: Next Order, Digimon World 2003, Digimon Story: Cyber Sleuth, Digimon Story: Cyber Sleuth - Hacker's Memory, Digimon Links where each Mon has exclusive attacks and the fighting games Digimon Rumble Arena, Digimon All-Star Rumble, Digimon Battle Spirit 2 etc, as well but those don't count I suppose, as they're anime dudes fighting. Still though, not many games allow "Pepper Breath" for example, to be used for anyone else other than Agumon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmhw4QLJQ6w with the following video, you can see that Agumon retains "Wolkennapalm 1""Heavy Strike 1" and "Attack Charge", which are listed as "inheritable skills", whilst "Pepper Breath" is listed is the "Special Move" and changes to "Mega Burst" for Geogreymon, "Mega Flame" for Greymon, "Burning Fist" for Meramon, "Fire Breath" for Tyrannomon and "Poop" for Sukamon. Going through the entire field guides of the three PS4 games though, only Alphamon (Blade of the Dragon King) and Alphamon Ouryuken (Ultimate Ouyruken) gain completely new attacks, which is likely because they had vanilla Alphamon pulling out the Ouryuken sword and using the attack of his alternate form, so had to give the alternate form something new. But yeah, from my entire experience of playing games only Digimon World DS, Digimon World Dawn and Dusk and probably the other Japanese exclusive DS titles allow special attacks to be inherited. Everything else gives every Digimon exclusive attacks only they can use, which almost always is from their official profile, using either the dub name, or the Japanese name (and like 95% use the Japanese name in the three PS4 games).

Samudramon has a skill called "Will-O'-Wisp Slash" but I have no clue if that's a new move, or just a new dub name for one of the three listed attacks. With the nature of Youtube being western, I cannot find footage of it using the attack in Japanese. Wikimon states that it's the attack "Rinkazan" that has been given the dub attack name "Will-O'-Wisp Slash" in the three games. So yeah, the DS games, you can give any Mon any attack, every other game, this is not the case. Only Agumon will ever have Pepper Breath, whilst in all three PS4 games (and Links), Only Alphamon has "Blade of the Dragon King", which is the move of Alphamon O, who instead replaces BOTK with a new move "Ultimate Ouryuken", which only Alphamon O can use. The other time it was brought up was Lillymon but none of the attacks that someone had posted to her profile were exclusive, all of them were inheritables. Marcusbwfc (talk) 21:31, May 17, 2018 (UTC)
 * I can agree with allowing all non-inheritable attacks. Can we fill a list like the one below? 12:12, May 18, 2018 (UTC)


 * Non-inheritable attacks (can someone link these to our appendices for each source?)
 * Anime-inspired
 * Digimon Adventure: Anode/Cathode Tamer -- All attacks
 * Digimon Digital Card Battle -- All attacks
 * Digital Card Arena
 * Digimon Adventure PSP -- All Attacks
 * Digimon Adventure 02: Tag Tamers -- All attacks
 * Digimon Adventure 02: D-1 Tamers -- All attacks
 * Digimon Adventure 02: Digital Partner -- ?
 * Digimon Tamers: Brave Tamer -- All attacks
 * Digimon Tamers: Pocket Culumon -- ?
 * Digimon Tamers: Digimon Medley -- All Attacks
 * Digimon Battle Spirit -- All Attacks
 * Digimon Tamers: Battle Spirit Ver 1.5 -- All Attacks
 * Digimon Rumble Arena -- All Attacks
 * Digimon Battle Spirit 2 -- All Attacks
 * Digimon World Data Squad -- All A Commands
 * Digimon Fusion Fighters -- ?
 * Digimon Universe Appli Monsters -- ?
 * Digimon Park -- ?
 * Digimon Typing -- ?
 * Digimon Racing -- ?
 * Digimon Rumble Arena 2 -- All attacks
 * Digimon All-Star Rumble -- All Attacks
 * World series
 * Digimon World -- Finishing Techniques
 * Pocket Digimon World: Wind Battle and Cool & Nature Battle -- ?
 * Digimon World 2 -- Skill
 * Digimon World 3 -- Signature Moves (usually last learned) leads
 * Digimon World 4 -- ? Signature Weapon (several match names of special moves from other media)??
 * Digimon World Re:Digitize and Decode -- unclear (see Agumon)
 * Digimon World: Next Order -- Special Attacks
 * Story series
 * Digimon World DS -- ?
 * Digimon World Dawn and Dusk -- Special Attacks
 * Digimon Story Lost Evolution -- ?
 * Digimon Story Super Xros Wars Red and Blue -- ?
 * Digimon Story Cyber Sleuth -- Special Attacks
 * Digimon Story Cyber Sleuth - Hacker's Memory -- Special Attacks
 * Digimon Links -- Signature skills
 * Monster series
 * Digital Monster S -- ?
 * Digital Monster WS -- ?
 * Digital Monster Card Game Ver. WSC -- ?
 * Digital Monster D-Project -- ?
 * KMMO series
 * Digimon Battle Server -- ?
 * Digimon Battle -- All Attacks
 * Digimon Masters -- All Attacks, ??F3 moves??
 * Other
 * Digimon Circle -- ?
 * Digimon Championship -- ?
 * Digimon Pendulum Revive and Survive -- ?
 * Digimon Life -- ?
 * Digimon Jintrix -- ?
 * Digimon Collectors -- ?
 * Digimon Heroes! -- ?
 * Digimon Fortune -- ?
 * Digimon Soul Chaser -- ?
 * Digimon ReArise -- ?

They're prob the ones ones I'd be able to verify from playing, if only more games had been released in Europe lmfao. (the DS Story titles allow Pepper Breath on anything etc). I figure it should be fine now then to add the BOTDK to Alphamon and Ulti Our to AO now then?Marcusbwfc (talk) 18:39, May 18, 2018 (UTC)
 * Please note that I'm not the king of the wiki, so just me saying "sounds good" does not mean there is consensus. We would need a comment from the other active editors (Lanate, Chimera-gui, Charles-929, and G-SANtos). 15:13, May 21, 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm willing to throw my weight behind this policy. Lanate (talk) 03:57, May 22, 2018 (UTC)
 * I have no opinions on this, do whatever you think is a good idea. Chimera-gui (talk) 23:14, May 24, 2018 (UTC)
 * Makes sense. I vote "yes". 16:32, May 31, 2018 (UTC)—Last edited on 05:56, June 1, 2018 (UTC)
 * As far as the attack descriptions for these go, they need to continue to use the in-universe descriptions If the same attack has multiple, significantly different descriptions, that can be covered in the style of "Soul Digitalization" on Alphamon. Any description of the visual differences that isn't about the actual functioning of the attack, as in the switching of the sword between depictions, would be covered by the Design section if it's not covered in-universe.
 * Also, do we want to separate the non-anime vg attacks from the rest of the list, as done with Agumon and Akatorimon? 15:05, June 1, 2018 (UTC)
 * What about card attacks? cuz I noticed that Nyaromon has moves listed that aren't in the reference book and appear to be from cards. I figure this should be removed?Marcusbwfc (talk) 17:43, June 1, 2018 (UTC)
 * If you're referring to the Digital Monster Card Game or the Collectible Card Games, we do accept those as unique. The main thing we're trying to avoid is having a big list of every move in a game on a hundred different articles, because if we included all attacks a Digimon can learn, well, the Story games basically allow you to get from any Digimon to almost any other Digimon.
 * Also, would you mind breaking your post up above into paragraphs? It's very difficult to read them here and on the MedievalDukemon page. 18:40, June 1, 2018 (UTC)
 * Ah well, no one's suggesting to use the generic attacks, just the ones that are exclusive which is like... only Alphamon and also I noticed it would be "bubbles" for a few Baby forms too. Also I notice Ds/Dawn/Dusk were edited to be that there's exclusive attacks but I don't believe that's the case. I remember having access to Pepper Breath on WarGreymon. As for where the moves are listed, I would list them different, or just mention "In Cyber Sleuth Alphamon uses BOTD".Marcusbwfc (talk) 18:46, June 1, 2018 (UTC)
 * Dawn/Dusk at the least have special attacks. I assume all the story games do, but Dawn Dusk definitely do. 11:44, June 4, 2018 (UTC)
 * So Dawn and Dusk don't allow anyone to use any move? so you can't have WGmon using Pepper Breath? cuz if so, then I'm pretty sure no game allows it. Also, why did you restore the game moves I removed from pages such as Agumon?Marcusbwfc (talk) 17:34, June 4, 2018 (UTC)
 * The Story games and some of the World games have moves that anyone can learn. The Story games that I've played (incl. Dawn Dusk) also have unique moves. I restores the game moves you removed because you shouldn't have removed them. 15:57, June 5, 2018 (UTC)
 * I would say yes in as long as the attack tecnique implies some sort of uniqueness. For example, I wouldn't add "Ouryuken" in the attack list of the regular Alphamon for obvious reason, although it's handled as a Special Technique in the first Cyber Sleuth. The Super Digica Taisen TCG is actually a good example of techniques being unique and random, so in this cases I'd make a decision in each case. --Charles.929 (talk) 16:30, June 6, 2018 (UTC)
 * I find keeping the Rumble Arena moves weird when the current discussion is for game moves. Anyway what about card moves? do they count? because there's some vanilla Alphamon cards that also use the Ouruyken move such as here- https://wikimon.net/Re-39t so the games aren't the only time vanilla Alphamon has used the attack. Marcusbwfc (talk) 17:15, June 6, 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't see anything obvious about excluding Ouryuken from Alphamon's techniques. By the same measure that multiple Digimon have Bubble Blow, there's no obvious problem with acknowledging that Alphamon has Ouryuken.
 * I don't see any reason to exclude Rumble Arena moves. The only reason we have a limitation in the first place is so that the Digimon Story/World games don't cause us to list every single attack in those games on every single page for a species that appears in them. It's okay to have upwards of twenty attacks, if the official material has given twenty attacks to a species. The issue is whether it's an attack that belongs to the species, or one that has merely been applied to it.
 * For rough comparison -- if this was the Pokemon Wiki, we'd be happy listing all the moves a species learns as it levels up, but we wouldn't include TMs. If a game allows a Digimon to learn every move, then listing all those moves doesn't inform anything about the Digimon, it informs about the game. Same reason why for games like Masters, where everything evolves at the same level, its not necessary to say "evolves to Champion at level X". Because that's not information about the topic, that's information about the game itself.
 * Ouryuken may be shared, and Rumble Arena techniques may be numerous, but they still inform about the Digimon. Alphamon Ouryuken is not just Alphamon with the sword, and honestly, even if he was this wouldn't be the first time we've noted when a Digimon was accidentally given another form's attacks. 16:09, June 8, 2018 (UTC)
 * Yeah I wasn't trying to give Alphamon every attack that exists in CS/HM/NO/Links, that would be absurd. It's simply an exclusive attack that has been used for him in 4 games now, as well as an official card. I aint gonna go add "Wolkenpalm 3" to all 350 Digimon cuz they can all learn it lol. The only other moves that could be added is that all babies know "Bubbles" in CS but most got changed to the ones on their profiles, such as "Fox Tail" and "Adhesive Bubble Blow" for HM (Which I found slightly pointless as you don't keep babies long enough for those moves to be relevant), so it would only be Alphamon/Alpha O and the babies with "new" moves listed. Plus, the fighting games having moves listed kinda means this should be allowed anyway.Marcusbwfc (talk) 17:35, June 8, 2018 (UTC)
 * The existing policy was that all non-inheritable moves get listed, yes. The question was which moves are non-inheritable, which the list above is supposed to be a quick guide for. All special attacks in CS, even ones that show up among multiple Digimon, should be listed, just as they're listed in the DRB (as "Awa"). 18:16, June 8, 2018 (UTC)
 * So is it fine to add BOTDK to vanilla Alphamon then? I wouldn't go as far as it's a "mistake" move since it's in mulitple games at this point. CS, NO, HM and Links and probably ReArise since that too uses CS models. From what I can see, no mods are against it and Alphamon O has "ultimate ouryuken" because someone else has his actual move. There aren't many that are used by mulitple dudes, just Bubbles in the first game and a few pallet swaps sharing moves.Marcusbwfc (talk) 22:23, August 3, 2018 (UTC)
 * At least for the Story games, we're all agreed that Special Attacks get listed, yes. Even when they have the appearance of being mistakes (which can be brought up on the talk page for discussion on whether to call out, if egregious). 13:55, August 6, 2018 (UTC)

The status of 'canon' Digimon species
So it's been a hot topic lately and so should get a general consensus. Should Digimon like Alphamon NX (DSCSHM Digimon), DotAgumon (DS Story games), the countless joke Digifuses and even something like Dot-Lalamon (a real life figure) count as species (although the joke fusions aren't counted anyway), or should they all be treated as 'non canon' and not having pages. There was also the point raised of "DotAgumon hasn't been used since 2010", which I personally don't think the date matters but it was brought up. I mean... Rockmon and L-ToyAgumon haven't been used in 2000. But still, with Chimera blocking the NX pages, which seems unfair when it's the voice of only one admin, it should be decided on and would blanket count for all these other guys. He also mentioned "null canon" but like... does that include only Japanese, since it's a Japanese franchise? there sure are a lot of dudes who would have to be deleted if not. Right now, everything except the NX forms have pages but it's currently "blocked" from being allowed to be made. Chimera stated he wants to delete all the pages of the 'non canon' Digimon, which apparently is all the dot, NX and probably joke Digifuse pages. My stance is they should count. They were treated as different Digimon in the respective sources they were in.Marcusbwfc (talk) 23:38, August 25, 2018 (UTC)
 * A discussion has already been had here. https://digimon.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:79681#71 to go over everything that has been said.Marcusbwfc (talk) 01:28, August 31, 2018 (UTC)

Exclusive attacks
This would be the discussion on how 'exclusive' attacks would work. So this would cover Apocalymon, Sakkakumon and Wormmon, as well as Beelzemon for Fist of the Beast King and a few others. Should they be counted on the main pages of the species, or just as attacks on the character page, due to being 'unnatural attacks', rather than 'species' attacks.Marcusbwfc (talk) 18:40, August 31, 2018 (UTC)

Mobile games below console games

 * I think mobile games should count below console games for a few reasons. (for dub terms and such)
 * Unlike console games, mobile games get taken down after a few years, meaning eventually people will be able to play these games and as such, wont be searching the names. For example, MedievalDukemon is being used from Heroes - however, Heroes was taken down in 2017, meaning right now, no one can use Heroes as a basis for finding the character, instead the names would come from either of the two Cyber Sleuth games (MedicalGallantmon), or Next Order (MedievalGallantmon). No matter what happens in the franchise - I can play Digimon World right now - heck, I still have my old PS1 for when I wanna play the PS1 games. People can play these forever. Heroes can never be played again. Links will probably be taken down before 2020, ReArise isn't dubbed but prob wont last that long either. No matter how badly they could do, or translation wise - they will always be available, people will always be able to load their consoles and play these games. We can probably chuck Masters in here as well since it's an online MMO, it will eventually shut its doors. The only way to see MedivialDukemon right now is to wind up on the article somehow, maybe from seeing the attached link on Gallantmon or something.
 * These are more "personal", but mobile games are terrible and little effort goes in. Heroes specifically is just slapping generic art on cards and thats it, and they were too lazy to use the dub terms. Cyber Sleuth might've been seen as a "mess", but at least they used a good 95% of the established names and attacks instead of "we cba dubbing it". Links, in fairness, for the 249 from Cyber Sleuth has just ported over the names and attacks, so that's fine... though they're making up their own names for the Digimon outside of that... annoyingly. Why couldn't they just use the HM names for Zubamon's line!? this is part the course I guess. Also, we should prob technically have All-Star RUmble and Masters in a similar lower position due to them being western only games.Marcusbwfc (talk) 02:20, October 2, 2018 (UTC)