Talk:Millenniummon (Adventure)

Machinedramon & Kimeramon
The article says they DNA digivolved for reasons unknown. Surely the fact that they were both dying is reason enough. Am I missing something? THB  → Talk ← 16:53, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

You are missing an important detail about digimon themselfes, when a digimon dies, and its data is not loaded by another digimon, it becomes a digiegg. That is why when the DNA digivolution was stated it was said to have been for unknown reasons.

Zolatul 13:15, August 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's just standard profile flair. Even if we know or can figure out exactly why it happened, the "story" is that it's a mystery. 14:20, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

From syldra.net
Meanwhile, Moon was released from his crystal prison, and was now Zeed Millenniumon. He broke the seal in the Adventure world so Apocalymon could cross the Wall of Fire, and arrived in the future, where he promptly conquered all the Digital Worlds, experiemented with cloning, and created numerous Digimon, such as Deathmon, Imperial Dramon Paladin Mode, Dukemon Crimson Mode, and Apocalymon. He then set his sights on the past, so he could have complete control over everything ever.

Can we confirm this? 16:52, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Page rename and re-image?
So, we now have a bit larger group of cross-series characters that require parsers (namely, the Hunters bunch). With those, we've not made any moves to rename them "Agumon (Adventure/Hunters)" or anything similar. Since the Tamer series starts off in the Adventure universe, do we want to rename this Millenniummon (Adventure)? If not, could we simplify it to (Tamer) [not Tamers]?

Also, since this Millenniummon appears in one of Ken's flashbacks, can we use the Toei art? It would also be nice to have WS art for Machinedramon. Finally, if I understand correctly, the Kimeramon and Machinedramon that form Millenniummon are the ones from Adventure. Is this true, and if so, should we merge in their character info and use their Toei art? 21:56, February 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, I heard that the Machinedramon is the one from the Dark Masters, and theres this ontological paradox that Millenniummon went back in time to allow the creation of his own Machinedramon half. However, I'm sure that the Kimeramon from 02 is not Millenniummon's Kimeramon half.
 * About the parsers: Well, the Ryo Akiyama games seem to be a single storyline which is incomplete if you use only one universe, which seems to be the reason we used this (or maybe because this was the only Digimon character to appear in more than one universe at the time). But if we have to change that, we should use Adventure.
 * And also, it wouldn't be wise to change the other pages, as with other possible anniversary series we would someday have an abomination of a name like "Agumon (Adventure/Hunters/Timers/Astronauts/Cosmopolitans/Future/Neo Legend/Riders/Golden World/etc/etc/etc)", which would be ridiculous.
 * The Ryo games are called the Tamer series? I don't think we should use that as could be mistaken for Tamers. 22:17, February 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Millenniummon's a weird case where his primary series stretches across both Adventure and Tamers universes. For the rest of them, their primary series are confined into one timelines (Adventure/Adventure 02) or Tamers or something.  We don't do parsers for things beyond the main series, but, like I said, Millenniummon's a special case. Lanate (talk) 03:34, February 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Lanate, you've played these games, right? Is it implied that Adventure Kimeramon is Millenniumon's?
 * Also, Lanate, what are your thoughts on using "Tamer" as a simplified parser? 14:00, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

Coming back to this, how would people feel about moving it to Millenniummon (Adventure)? Lanate (talk) 20:43, May 29, 2015 (UTC)
 * Makes sense. 05:38, May 30, 2015 (UTC)
 * Supporting this move once again, and also supporting that we merge Machinedramon in (with citation in article to quote by Gennai, preferably). Also, we should add the bit from the profiles Theigno ripped that says Millenniummon released Apocalymon. 06:02, February 23, 2016 (UTC)
 * Previous discussion on User talk:G-SANtos...


 * I'm reiterating the support to Adventure move, but I still disagree that Millenniummon!Machinedramon is Dark Master!Machinedramon... Is there the implication that Dark Master!Machinedramon died and became part of Apocalymon? Lanate (talk) 05:08, February 24, 2016 (UTC)


 * I mean, yeah, but that implication's there for Vamdemon too. 02:47, February 25, 2016 (UTC)
 * Myotismon did die though. The Machinedramon that became Millenniummon was defeated but never died. Lanate (talk) 03:10, February 25, 2016 (UTC)
 * I guess I misunderstood, I thought it was a Death-X-lution. I'm fine with defining it as a separate Machinedramon (does the game say anything else about the Machinedramon and Kimeramon?) if the consensus is not behind it, but if that's the case we need to remove the links to Adventure Machinedramon and clearly specify that they are separate characters. 14:22, February 25, 2016 (UTC)
 * Nope, absolutely nothing beyond the paragraph of exposition that Gennai gives at the beginning.


 * What parser should be used for this Machinedramon? Machinedramon (Anode/Cathode Tamer)? Lanate (talk) 03:20, February 26, 2016 (UTC)

There's no evidence to suggest that Machinedramon became part of Apocalymon, or that the Machinedramon that became Milleniummon is a different one. Lady Satsuki (talk) 03:20, March 3, 2016 (UTC)
 * Apocalymon has Machinedramon data with which it uses its techniques, and it's clearly implied to be the Dark Master version. In the PSP game (which is not in strict continuity with the anime, but shows authorial intent), they make it very explicit, with Machinedramon himself being reincarnated. 21:38, March 3, 2016 (UTC)

Machinedramon didn't become part of Apocalymon, he was just copying his techniques. He was also shown using Myotismon's techniques and the sequel series reveals that Myotismon possessed Owikawa. 03:20, March 4, 2016 (UTC)
 * Anode/Cathode Tamer depicts Myotismon as one of the Digimon that Millenniummon revives as well. Lanate (talk) 19:34, March 4, 2016 (UTC)
 * "There's no evidence to suggest that the Machinedramon that became Millenniummon is a different one." And there's even less evidence to support the claim that it's the same Machinedramon since when Machinedramon was defeated, his territory ceased to exist. And since this only happens when a Dark Master dies, Machinedramon (Dark Master) couldn't have survived because otherwise there'd be no reason that his territory ceased to exist. Chimera-gui (talk) 20:11, March 4, 2016 (UTC)
 * Apocalymon is made up of the data of defeated Digimon. Insisting that he was just "copying techniques" ignores the incredibly obvious implication of everything he's done in Adventure and Adventure PSP, and how the defeated bosses, themselves, even show up in PSP as an expansion of Apocalymon's episode.
 * As far as Myotismon, him turning into VenomMyotismon is literally stated to be a resurrection. Myotismon died. Furthermore, the series is absolutely chock full of showing that one Digimon's data can go to multiple different places -- Arkadimon, Bagramon, etc. Heck, the fact that Bagramon was resurrected into two different beings is the entire foundation of Young Hunters. That he possessed Oikawa is not, by any means, a contradiction to him appearing in Tamer (as Lanate points out) and him being absorbed by Apocalymon. Data is a plural word. 20:20, March 4, 2016 (UTC)

Piedmon wasn't destroyed, only imprisoned, but his section of Spiral Mountain still dissolved as a result. Also Apocalymon isn't made up of the data of defeated digimon, he's made up of the data of early digimon that died trying to digivolve. As for Machinedramon, it's possible that him being nearly destroyed was enough to weaken his link to Spiral Mountain. Lady Satsuki (talk) 03:20, March 4, 2016 (UTC)
 * Piedmon was revived in both Anode/Cathode Tamer and part of the same sequence in the Adventure PSP game. It takes more speculation to claim that they're the same than to claim that they're different. Lanate (talk) 17:38, March 5, 2016 (UTC)
 * "Digivolution" is a mistranslation of that line, as the original script makes it clear he's talking about natural selection, rather than the metamorphosis process. Even then, "data of digimon that died trying to digivolve" is equivalent to the Digimon that died in battle, because you don't digivolve in that setting unless you "win", and the fact that he incorporates the shapes/attacks of and in the PSP game revives the earlier villain Digimon makes it clear that he's incorporated their data. He's a living Dark Area. It's like the whole point. The Japanese script makes this more clear:
 * "We are, after all, the ones who were thwarted through the evolution process. Digimon have continued to evolve again and again throughout the years. Did you know that there were some among them who disappeared? It is inevitable for some species to disappear during the evolution process. If they aren't able to adapt to their environment-"
 * Apocalymon and the children are talking about those Digimon that were defeated: "You were created from the dark hearts of the Digimon who disappeared?" and later "But then that means we have to face the combined powers of every Digimon we've ever fought!"
 * Piedmon was imprisoned within the gate, which then disintegrated. There has never been any indication whatsoever that he survived that. 02:59, March 6, 2016 (UTC)

It's not the same thing at all, his statement doesn't prove anything, Machinedramon's a Mega and Myotismon's an Ultimate so it's obvious neither of them had any problems digivolving. Them being revived doesn't prove anything either. Lady Satsuki (talk) 03:20, March 5, 2016 (UTC)
 * Okay, to clarify again because it doesn't seem like you're getting me -- in the quotes I listed, Apocalymon makes it clear that when he says he was formed from the Digimon who failed to evolve, he means natural selection, not the Digivolution process. The use of "digivolve" in the dub is a mistranslation. The children follow that up by saying that this means he has the powers (as in, is not just copying) of every villain they have faced so far -- a group of Digimon who have all died in battle against the children -- and that he is created from their "dark hearts" -- meaning these are not just innocent Koromon who suffered a fatal complication during Digivolution.
 * The PSP remake of this scene makes it blisteringly clear what the authors intended by having Apocalymon, like Millenniummon did in the Tamer series, revive the data of the defeated villains for the children to fight. The interpretation you are pushing does not fit with what we are shown and told, and raises more questions than it answers. 03:41, March 8, 2016 (UTC)

On merging the Machinedramon (Adventure) page into this...*/
NO WAY JOSÉ!!! The Awesomest Plant, the Laser Sunflower. talk to me here or here.

Ryo's Story!
Is Ryo's Story! canon or just an officially published fan comic? Lanate (talk) 03:54, March 3, 2016 (UTC)
 * I had a look at it and it seems like a condensing/retelling of the Tamer series games' plot while trying to avoid any of the continuity errors that I alluded to fans bitching about when the topic of Millenniummon came up before (example here: link) Chimera-gui (talk) 05:04, March 3, 2016 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I should probably get to the point. I don't want to use the name XeedMillenniummon because, well, it's so very wrong and vestigial from the western Digimon fandom's older days. Lanate (talk) 03:48, March 4, 2016 (UTC)
 * But that was the spelling at the time although Chris did once state that he regretted using that spelling and considered it a mistake on his part. And remember that the Adventure anime itself uses a ton of spellings that are now considered "old, unofficial". Chimera-gui (talk) 04:35, March 4, 2016 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I think I'm accepting it for now. Lanate (talk) 04:41, March 4, 2016 (UTC)

Merger
these digimon should be kept seperate because they are two completely different digimon. the kimeramon that appears in adventure 2 was created by ken when he was the digimon emperor. this happens years after the events of Digimon Adventure: Anode/Cathode Tamer. although it is very possible that he based his design for his kimeramon on the one he encountered with ryo when he was younger.DalekSupreme13 05:58, April 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * We're asking for evidence from Anode/Cathode Tamer as to whether it is meant to be the Adventure 02 Kimeramon. If it is, then the merge will proceed. If it isn't, then the merge will not happen.
 * Evidence is what is required here, not discussion. 11:48, April 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * Not sure if them being the same would be possible. ZeedMillenniumon Jogressed with Monodramon two years before the events of 02. It would require some time travel for it happen. Besides, Anode/Cathode Tamer was released before 02, so there's no way the game could have tied them together unless the Chimairamon thing was planned months before the start of the series. It would require for one of the other three games to explain, and as far as I know, only Anode/Cathode Tamer gives an insight on Millenniumon's origins. 01:51, April 5, 2012 (UTC)/22:51, April 4, 2012 (Brasília)
 * I get that. The point is that time travel is Millenniummon's whole schtick. Considering that Ken created Kimeramon due to the Dark Spore Millenniummon implanted inside of him, it's not unreasonable to interpret Millenniummon as ensuring his own creation...basically the same plot as Chaos and Garland in FFI. The question is, is this what the game's actual show? We know that the Kimeramon and Machinedramon were "dying", and from what I've been told we know that the Machinedramon we see was the Dark Master.
 * So, again: arguing over the logic of it doesn't really get us anywhere. All we need is for someone with a translation for the games (or possibly the CD dramas, where they mention Millenniummon and the Dark Spores) to check for any mention of Kimeramon and Millenniummon being the Adventure 02 characters. I believe wikimon also has the memorial book entries for the both of them, although I don't have access to wikimon at work and can't check right now. If it's said explicitly somewhere, alright, question answered. If it isn't, then it's too much of an assumption to make and we shelve it. 18:44, April 5, 2012 (UTC)

Agreed Kimeramon was created years after this game. But I wonder just where did that kimeramon come from since Ken created Kimeramon himself way after the battle with Millenniumon.--joshua 16:54, May 23, 2012 (UTC)Super Side swiper.

Y2K Glitch = Millenniummon
So there is a video explaining Ryo's backstory which also explains some of the weirdness regarding Millenniummon. Apparently the was what brought back Machinedramon barely alive and needing to fuse with Kimeramon.

What do we want to do with this? Chimera-gui (talk) 18:35, February 22, 2017 (UTC)
 * Ignore it as a fan video unless there's a first-party source on that. Lanate (talk) 02:40, February 23, 2017 (UTC)
 * I think the concept of Millenniummon being based on the Y2K bug (based, on the designers' part, not born from it as an in-universe fact) to be rather on point. I mean, it's a time-travelling Digimon that first attacked on the New Year's Eve of the third millennium, and he explicitly caused time to revert in the first game. That sounds very much like the Y2K bug, and I think Millenniummon being based on it makes more sense than Diablomon, who attacked on March 2000. 03:17, February 23, 2017 (UTC)


 * The video is explaining the story that's supposedly based on translations of the Tamer series games which is why I brought in up. I don't expect it to be completely accurate but I don't know of any better sources for the scripts of those games. Chimera-gui (talk) 03:26, February 23, 2017 (UTC)