Talk:Seven Great Demon Lords

Untitled
Isn't Barbamon mentioned as one of the seven in Next?KrytenKoro 01:22, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * To my knowledge, they called him "The Demon Lord", which has also been used for VenomVamdemon. Lanate 02:09, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

I know
It's probably way too late to change the primary fan-name, but is their any basis for "Seven Great Demon Lords" being the translation, as opposed to the more contextual "Seven Great Devils"? Is "Demon Lord" ever actually used in the dub? Or hell, even "Devil Kings" would be an acceptable translation. Basically, is there any english source that calls anything "Demon Lord"? If not, what do they use instead? 17:21, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Lucemon calls his Satan Mode the "true Cho-Mao" (超魔王, lit. "Super Devil King") in DWDS, so so far the dub name is just "Mao" for Demon Lords.
 * Damnit, the one time they actually refer to the SGDL in the anime, and it's replaced with "Belphemon and six others". WTH! 18:19, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * And the only other instance, Belphemon calls himself "the Deadly Digimon, Belphemon!"


 * I'd like to vote for using the Japanese term (Demon Lord) in instances like this, when the dubbers are going out of there way to just be—well, not only idiotic, they do that all the time, but actively destructive to the intent of the material. 18:39, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The Bandai cards use "Evil" for all Digimon with "Demon" in their type, which is completely inaccurate the the connotation of "Demon Lord". I'll check my DS when I get home, but do any of the Digimon World games featuring Demon Lords give them any sort of name? 19:58, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, Digimon World Data Squad consistently calls them "Mao type Digimon", but screw that, I'm not playing along with that nonsense. The only other dub source I can think of would be Digimon World DS, which I don't have, or Digimon World Championship, which I haven't played.
 * DWD & D call Lucemon a "Demon Digimon".
 * !!!! DWD & D calls Beelzemon "One of the Demon Lords"! We've finally got a sane dub name! Woot!
 * On a side note, the game also uses "Paladin" as the translation of "Holy Knight", at least for Sleipmon. Do we want to do anything with that? 10:52, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Based on the Three Archangels thing, I'm pulling for "Seven Archdevils" if we ever get a romanization for this from BoJ. 05:43, April 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, so the backs of the Code Keys in DSAM have the name in English DigiCode:
 * "THE SEVEN GREAT DEMON LORDS"
 * "THE SEVEN DEADLY SINS"
 * It's an unambiguous reference to the group itself, rather than their type (should we be using "Mao", "Deadly", and "Demon Lord" mentioned above as English types in the infoboxes? -- I'm less angry at "Deadly" now that I realize it's a standing for Seven Deadly Sins, rather than a euphemism for "Demon Lord" a la "Evil"). It's also set in an anime timeline, and before Dawn and Dusk. So, this or "Seven Deadly Digimon" (pending citation verifying it as group name, not just type) would be fine with me. Thoughts? 18:15, July 17, 2014 (UTC)

Shadowlord and Ogudomon
Once we get some kind of full confirmation that Ogudomon is a member, we should probably add both of these to the section as the "Super-Demon Lord's". Shadowlord is explicitly mentioned as such in DWDS, making it a part of the concept of the group, if not a dues-paying member, and the same basically goes with Ogudomon. 11:11, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Code Keys DigiCode Text
Does anyone know what the English DigiCode on each of the SGDLs' code keys say in DWDS? So far, all I can make out is that their names are spelled in DigiCode at the top of each of them. --AinzX 07:47, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Do you have any pictures? To be honest, I kind of stopped playing before getting to Belphemon, as the battling was just too long for me. 18:40, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I haven't actually got the game but, the only "images" I can provide are ones from pausing videos which are from the highest quality ones I can find and in each case the text below the crest is illegible (unfortunately, I couldn't find the other three in similar quality):
 * @2:06 (Code Key of Sloth)
 * @1:36 (Code Key of Lust)
 * @2:10 (Code Key of Greed)


 * --AinzX 21:27, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I can't see it either. Once I get out of finals Friday, I'll see if I can boot up the game and take notes for you. 14:26, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

So....
Yeah.

We need to incorporate this info, because Ainz did one hell of a job figuring out stuff on this that most people never even thought of. 05:29, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Xros Wars
Should we also include the anime? Lilithmon's profile mentions the SGDL. 15:45, February 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * The toei site profiles are just copy-pastes of the Dictionary, with a few rare exceptions, and provide nothing to confirm that they are talking about the actual character rather than just the species. However, if the Asahi or Jintrix profiles mention them as SGDL and provide evidence that they mean the anime characters, then yes we can. This goes for the Royal Knights, Olympus Twelve, and Ten Legendary Warriors, as well. 17:40, February 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * One of Lilithmon's Jintrix cards mentions both the SGDL and the Three Head Officers. Should we consider that the mention to the Head Officers makes that card a character card? 16:52, Febraury 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Which card is it? I can check the profile on the card to see if it backs it up. To my recollection, the groups listed on the card face sometimes overlap. 17:40, February 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's 1-104, the profile doesn't mention the Bagra Army or any thing related to the anime, but it lists her as "Seven Great Demon Lords" and "Three Head Officers" (or "Three Commanders" in Wikimon's translation). 18:14, Febraury 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Jintrix also conflates MetalGreymon XW and MetalGreymon L, as well as the Adventure and Tamers Terriermons. I don't think we can treat that box as anything other than our own infoboxes. 04:19, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

Would the Beelzemon seen in Xros Wars be counted as a alternate form for the demon lord beelzemon in the normal sence or in the same way as daemonm cloacked?DalekSupreme13 07:15, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

The SGDL are belphemon, lucemon, lilithmon, beelzebumon, leviamon, daemon, and barbamon

Although the Lilthmon and Leviamon in Digimon Xros Wars are not named as a members of the Seven Great Demon Lords within the anime itself, it is named a member on the card based off of it.


 * The Beelzemon in Xros Wars is only called a member of the SGDL in his original Toei profile, which was removed once they noticed that they had just copy-pasted the original form's profile from the dictionary. That's why we don't use the Toei site's profiles as applying to the actual character.
 * Lilithmon's Jintrix card just has an excerpt from her Dictionary profile, and lists that she has appeared in both the Three Head Officers and the Seven Great Demon Lords. However, those lists are compilations, not definitions of a specific character--they have what is clearly Tamers Terriermon listed as "Digimental of Fate" because of Willis's Terriermon, and they have MetalGreymon XW listed as "Crest of Courage" because of Tai's MetalGreymon.
 * The blurbs on the SDT cards, however, are absolutely about the character, and if we can get one of those (or the asahi profile, I haven't checked it yet) to say that "Leviamon, Lilithmon, and Beelzemon are SGDL", then yes, they should be listed as such.

Belphemon
is this the same Belphemon as in DWDS? who are the VAs? 14:15, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

No, it's not. The Belphemon from DWDS is a kid merged with the Code Key of Sloth; this is a different Belphemon.

Digimon can be resurrected, though, and to treat them as separate is to claim that there are two groups of SGDL in data squad: one that got sealed away, and another that got sealed away with the key cards. Depending on when the game is supposed to be set, it makes more sense to believe that the code key either has the remnants of Belphemon, or allows him to be channeled from wherever he actually is sealed. I believe the channeling bit, because this game makes more sense as happening before the Royal Knights arc, but either way it's hard for me to believe that the DWDS Belphemon is not at least a part of DDS Belphemon.
 * Also, what's the deal with Digimon World DS? Is that within the Data Squad universe, or are the DATS characters dimensional travelers or something? 14:15, February 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Here's the impression that I'm getting:


 * 1) Digimon Savers Another Mission: They are channeled from wherever they are imprisoned.
 * 2) Digimon Data Squad: Belphemon reappears and is defeated.
 * 3) Digimon World DS: The SGDL reappear.

However, that leaves the question of whether the SGDL in DS are implied to have ever been imprisoned or defeated, and why this order is opposite the show...so I guess my next question is, are the SGDL in Digimon World DS real, or are they copies like in DWDS-DSAM?

Final question: Each of these settings has the DATS squad as major characters, so they are clearly the same setting. Even if we decide they are incompatible (and honestly, Belphemon in the anime is the thing that mucks it up), should they all be covered as the same essential character, as the Ten Legendary Warriors and Celestial Digimon are for Frontier and the games based off of it?

Eh, it seems like it might be less speculatory to cover them as separate sections, it's just that it feels messy to me to do that, because of DATS being in each one. Plus we have to make new parsers for DWDS and Digimon World DS.14:25, February 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, I think that the game doesn't make sense in any time period in the Savers universe, if you consider that the events of the episodes 12-48 seem to happen on  THE SAME WEEK!!!  I think the game is non-canon as it's impossible to place it chronologically near to any episode. But I think that the Code Keys might be like the Legendary Spirits.
 * The DS thing, I heard that it's actually dimensional travel, at least for Dawn/Dusk. 14:59, February 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * No yeah, Dawn/Dusk is, but DS actually mentions DATS as part of its backstory. Dawn/Dusk just has them as cameos in a post-game quest. 15:37, February 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Um, in retrospect, want to merge the Belphemon (Digimon World Data Squad) and Belphemon (Data Squad) characters? Lanate (talk) 06:21, July 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Possibly. 05:42, April 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, so returning to this: considering that the seven, as a group, are depicted in Awaken Belphemon!, and that per the Belphemon profile, DSAM portrays the SGDL as basically primal manifestations of the sins that can manifest through various vessels, I propose merging the DSAM and DS sections into DS-suffixed sections, with DSAM being treated as "Meanwhile, another manifestation of X appeared (in DSAM)." I know there's some unofficial placement of DSAM discussed on wtw that is the best candidate -- I believe it is right before DATS gets shut down? There might also be calendar clues in the game, what with all the chatting options at HQ, but we'd need a text dump I feel. The sections also need to mention the remanifestations of the sins after their Code Key holders are defeated, and then that they merged with the DATS Digimon. 14:46, June 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * At the time of the game, Suguru is still missing. This is mentioned in one of the first scenes. There's no chronological placement for this game that doesn't cause a continuity error, as after episode 12 everything in the series is very tight knit (heck, I even suspect everything from episode 12 to 48 happens in the same week), so we would have to use the term "at some point" when writing character synopsis. I guess it's another case of a game being made without the involvement of the anime staff. 15:19, June 25, 2014 (UTC)

Beelzemon DS
Why was Beelzemon's DS image removed? His boss battle uses the party Beelzemon sprite as far as I'm aware. He's even a single zone enemy. Lanate (talk) 19:37, February 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * I was unaware of that. Sorry, everybody! 20:00, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

Lucemon's variations
Since Lucemon Shadowlord Mode was the leader of the Demon Lords in Digimon World Data Squad, shouldn't he be in the Lucemon's variations section of the table?  Tailed   Fox  00:56, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * He's a Super Demon Lord, which will be in a different place when it's added. 02:37, February 11, 2012 (UTC)

Main image
Now that we finally have Dictionary images for each form, should we create a full image similar to that used for the Digimon Sovereigns? If not, should we change the Digimon Sovereigns to one of the cards or screenshots that shows all five of them? Or should we use a screenshot here? 22:39, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

Code Key children
Source:

Beelzemon, Barbamon, and two of the Belphemon children bullied Yuma. I'm assuming that one of the Belphemon was meant to be the Leviamon child, but the game is what it is. 04:17, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

Question
''I think the anchors should be inside the characters sections. It may be more practical in case we may ever need to change anything.''
 * The reason why I put the anchors above the section headers is because if the anchor code is put below it, the page (for me at least) tends to cut the section header out entirely. For that reason, I thought it looked aesthetically better to have the anchors above the relevant section. Lanate (talk) 22:38, July 31, 2012 (UTC)
 * We cooooould just set up the redirects correctly... 02:39, August 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * =P I dislike using the numbered system though, especially if headers change. But I wouldn't mind switching over.  Lanate (talk) 02:41, August 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's not like skipping the header will impact in anything about the page. If you want to see the header, just roll the page up. I think that knowing that there's an anchor there once you click on "Edit" is more important than aesthetics. 03:17, August 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * But aesthetics are what the casual user browsing the site will see, and if we're going to be redirecting to that anchor, it should be because it looks good. Or we could just go with Kryten's suggestion and abandon the anchor in favor of the [2, 3, etc.] style redirects. Lanate (talk) 03:30, August 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, but we also need a way to somehow tell editors that there's an anchor there once they click on "Edit", because it's like you just start editing on a Wiki and already know all the templates they use. How about leaving hidden notes saying that an anchor is placed in the previous section? 22:50, August 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. Lanate (talk) 20:08, August 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think you guys are overthinking this. These anchors exist because of a redirect system that we (literally us three, not the wiki as a whole) put in place, and casual editors aren't going to have any contact with it besides being redirected. I mean, have casual editors EVER addressed the redirects, besides an errant wikia janitor cleaning up double redirects?
 * In fact, the only reason the redirects direct to the anchors instead of the specific headers is for our own benefit. I'm of the opinion that it's not too much of a hassle to use direct redirects, but if we're using anchors, the only visible effect they'll have is whether the header appears or not, so that's what we need to maintain. We really, really don't need to throw even more coding at this to publicize a kludge that is quintessentially our private tool. 20:46, August 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * I was thinking of "casual" editors that come in and stay, like I did.
 * But I just came up with a simple solution. One thing I observed about headers, is that you can throw bold, italic, and underlined codes without affecting the header's name. Then, I thought if you could do the same with anchors. Turns out you can. I think this solves it, placing anchors inside the headers. I'll apply this to other pages now. 15:56, August 7, 2012 (UTC)
 * This is incredibly hideous, though, and ignores the reason we created the anchor template (to allow redirects to point to a part of the page where we didn't want a header).
 * Plus, if a character has its own section, there's no point to having an anchor. We shouldn't be using them in sections where there are multiple characters in one section, unless the different forms are actually covered in significantly different parts of the section (like, Etemon gets a paragraph or two, then MetalEtemon gets a totally separate paragraph).
 * If it's a worry of figuring out which ID number each redirect should get, I can do that myself guys, you don't have to worry about counting. Seriously, I really, really dislike this method of using the anchors. 17:40, August 7, 2012 (UTC)

Digimon Masters
Masters refers to Daemon as "one of the 7 great demon lords". 03:32, July 3, 2013 (UTC)

Demon
Hey guys! Shouldn't have Demon of Digimon Adventure V-Tamer 01 a section in this page? Although in the manga it isn't mentioned, in the cards Bo-10v, Bo-26v y Vj-9 from Hyper Colosseum (the cards of the character of the manga) it is said that he is part of the group. What do you think? Charles.929 (talk) 23:57, July 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * No, those cards just call him a "Demon Lord", which is his type. 04:26, July 17, 2013 (UTC)

Hi again! I've been asking in Wikimon and they say that, although the concept is never said in the manga series, it's not impossible at all cause the design of one of the cards of Demon in Adventure V-Tamer (Bo-10v) is the same as the one of the Seven Demon Lords used in the Digimon Story game. Well thanks anyway :) Charles.929 (talk) 13:16, July 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * That's not what they meant. The character who appears in V-Tamer 01 is never called one of the SGDL. Whether another character who is part of the SGDL looks the same as him does not affect whether or not he is a member of the SGDL. At best, it's an allusion. 14:46, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

Collectors titles
These are from the chapter names of the Tower of the Seven Deadly Sins series. Should they be added to the table?


 * 七大罪の塔　－暗黒の女神編－ The Tower of the Seven Deadly Sins ~The Goddess of Darkness Chapter~
 * 七大罪の塔　－黄金の古狐編－ The Tower of the Seven Deadly Sins ~The Schemer of Gold Chapter~
 * 七大罪の塔　－目覚めの咆哮編－ The Tower of the Seven Deadly Sins ~The Roar of Awakening Chapter~
 * 七大罪の塔　－消失の楽園編－ The Tower of the Seven Deadly Sins ~The Paradise of Loss Chapter~
 * 七大罪の塔　－絶望の深淵編－ The Tower of the Seven Deadly Sins ~The Abyss of Despair Chapter~
 * 七大罪の塔　－混沌の業火編－ The Tower of the Seven Deadly Sins ~The Hellfire of Chaos Chapter~
 * 七大罪の塔　－最後の決闘者編－ The Tower of the Seven Deadly Sins ~The Duelist of Finality Chapter~
 * 七大罪之塔　－贖罪の超魔王編－ The Tower of the Seven Deadly Sins ~The Super Demon Lord of Atonement Chapter~

Towers
Should the Tower images be merged with the table? Also, should they be renamed to their sin, or stay named by Demon Lord? 18:21, July 17, 2014 (UTC)

Dawn and Dusk
Is there a quest about the SGDL in Sunburst and Moonlight? I still have not completed the game, and I can't find info about their existence neither here or in Wikimon. I'm asking because the plot for Sayo's quests in Cyber Sleuth is that after she defeated the Demon Lords in her world, their power was added to the SGDL of the CS world, and Dianamon was deleted as punishment, and defeating the SDGL is the only way to restore her. 17:04, March 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * No, there isn't. The closest is the "Three Great Demons" quest, Sayo's version of the "Three Great Angels" quest. She fights the dark versions of the Archangels, Demon, Lilithmon, and Cherubimon Vice.
 * The game might be mixing its story up with the original Digimon Story, in which the SGDL were a series of bosses, similar to how SM use the Kowloon Co. 16:47, March 22, 2015 (UTC)

Cyber Sleuth and multiverse
I will still need to get to the quest videos, but according to the TV Tropes page (which lists Aster Selene as an editor in the page's history), defeating the SGDL of one universe causes their power to spread to other universes. TV Tropes specifically states this is a "sin". We see an example of this in Sayo: She defeated the SGDL of her universe, and had Dianamon deleted as a punishment, and the TV Tropes page claims that Aiba commits and the same sin by helping Sayo defeat the SGDL of their universe, and the only reason they don't get the same punishment is due to Mirei's meddling. The Japanese Wikipedia article has a link to the Japanese article in their SGDL section, but I don't know what's the context yet.
 * If we can confirm this, where do we put this info, and do we consider it valid multiverse-wide, or only to Sunburst/Moonlight and Cyber Sleuth universes, or what?
 * By the way, Cyber Sleuth has our first explanation of how the Digimon multiverse works. I'll translate Mirei's explanation when I have time. 03:06, September 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * While the authors of CS probably intended it to be multiverse-wide, they can't actually tell the authors of the other works how their setting should be set up; for example, Sayo didn't actually defeat the SGDL, as that was the original Digimon Story protagonist. It can only be said to be true for the multiverse from the CS PoV. Similar situation is the Thirteen Primes in any pre-Prime Transformers series vs. in Prime itself: pre-Prime, we were told "this is how it is in every setting", but then the authors of Prime decided "we are going to have different rules, and screw the multiverse".
 * I can't really see how the SGDL would be related to a CCH, unless they are the event horizon round-about protecting the multiverse from a singularity of good? I guess the Homeostasis's whole "balance" schtick could imply that, but we'd need citations from the game itself. I don't want to use Japanese wikipedia for sourcing anything, and the TVTropes pages for Digimon are replete with fanmyths (I trust AS, but not TVTropes itself. If she's the one who added that info, we can easily ask her to provide the citations for our own use). 13:35, September 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * According to my extremely rough translation, the Japanese wikipedia page says that the SGDL are the Digimon at the peak of the evil hierarchy, and are not native to this Digital World. For that reason, no kind of limit can be placed on their evolution. In the DLC, they are fought and defeated in order to resurrect Dianamon, who had not committed a sin. According to Mirei, the SGDL operate a certain seal that is said to distribute their power through every parallel dimension, with the extremely bothersome result that if the SGDL are destroyed in one world, they will only become more powerful in the others. (This is basically ) Because it's something that occurs due to the providence of the worlds, and is not necessarily performed by a person, it's something similar to the cosmic censorship hypothesis. For that reason, if one disturbs this principle, it will generate a punishment to counterbalance it (In Sayo's case, the annihilation of Dianamon, who had become as powerful as the SGDL).
 * So, it sounds like the SGDL created a seal so that any one incarnation of the SGDL is actually only a meager fragment of their true, immense power, which has been split over multiple dimensions, and that as you defeat the incarnations, their power only pools in all the rest. I believe the reference to the CCH is because the seal has been integrated into the running of the multiverse and does this automatically, without anyone needing to perform a ritual upon death, but it's very difficult grammar to parse and I could easily be wrong. The last sentence about Dianamon seems to be saying not so much that Dianamon did anything the gods consider "wrong", but that the SGDL found a way to cheat the system and pay for their special ability with the life of the one who killed their incarnation, basically meaning they get to have the store paying for their groceries. Dianamon got eaten in the backlash of killing the SGDL, and presumably used as the price to transfer their power to their other incarnations.
 * Again, this is (1) based on wikipedia, and not canon quotes, (2) an extremely rough translation that I have confidence in, and (3) based on me choosing what seems like a reasonable setup, without having watched game footage. Hell, it's possible that it's meant to say that, if you defeat the SGDL, you get a free resurrection out of it (instead of perverting the equivalent exchange, it goes into overdrive, and by killing an SGDL you get to anti-kill (resurrect) a good guy). 14:14, September 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * As for the Story contradiction, maybe CS interprets Sb/Ml as a different universe from the first Story game.
 * Also, the only reason I brought this topic up is because Aster Selene is listed as an editor in the TV Tropes article. 14:36, September 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * As an off hand, I'd say that it's Story-specific interpretation of the SGDL. It could also be that this Sayo comes from a parallel world to the one that Sunburst/Moonlight depict, like how (IIRC) the Digimon that Ryo recruits in Brave Tamer are actually parallel versions of the canon ones. Lanate (talk) 03:17, September 25, 2015 (UTC)