Talk:Togemon

Is there any reason Lightspeed can't be Light Speed, with a space? 22:25, August 26, 2014 (UTC)
 * Um, I think that traditionally is lightspeed, but there's no real reason to avoid it. We'd have to examine the dominate spelling though; iirc it was Lightspeed when I first looked, but I can double check later. Lanate (talk) 14:53, September 8, 2014 (UTC)

Design Reference
"Togemon appears as a giant, Haniwa-faced Easter lily cactus (Echinopsis chiloensis) " Is there a source for this claim? Togemon just seems like a generic cactus to me. If anything, I would say it resembles a Saguaro based on how well-known and iconic that cactus is.Enkiduu (talk) 11:12, December 6, 2017 (UTC)
 * It's based on Togemon flowering into a lily. 15:03, December 6, 2017 (UTC)
 * That doesn't seem like convincing evidence. Lilymon is based more on the lily plant than the Eastern Lily cactus. There's no direct connection, even in appearance, between Togemon and an Eastern Lily cactus other than the fact that both are cactus and have a very vague relation with the word "lily". Enkiduu (talk) 02:28, December 8, 2017 (UTC)
 * I mean, it looks like the right type of cactus to me, and the flower matches the flower that blooms when Lillymon evolves. It could also be saguaro based on the cactus that Mimi got her crest from, I guess. 12:23, December 8, 2017 (UTC)

http://static.wpe.au.syrahost.com/var/m_e/e5/e58/46000/500033-Echinopsis%20obrepanda%20Violet%20Easter%20Lily%20Cactus.JPG https://www.flowersofindia.net/catalog/slides/Easter%20Lily%20Cactus.jpg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_XbKIzjFKY
 * For context we are referring to the flower that grows out of Togemon's head as the flower Lilymon actually comes out of seems to be a rose, especially in tri. Chimera-gui (talk) 17:26, December 8, 2017 (UTC)


 * My point is there's no distinguishing features that point to Togemon's design specifically being based on Echinopsis chiloensis. Togemon just seems to be a generic cactus. The flower on its head is simply several generic-looking petals, which could match any number of plants, even outside of cactus. I could just as easily say the design was based on Trichocereus, or Pilosocereus, or most likely a Saguaro. Echinopsis flowers tend to grow at the end of very long arms, as seen in the second picture you linked. No such things are seen on Togemon. Most people are familiar with a Saguaro cactus. Even if they don't know the name, they know the shape because it's an iconic shape of a cactus, tall with arms. I think it's a bit farfetched to assume Togemon is specifically based on Echinopsis chiloensis unless there's official source material stating that somewhere.

coconut
If "ココナッツパンチ" is "coconuts punch" then shouldnt "ココナッツアッパー" be "coconuts upper" and not "coconut upper?" its the same ココナッツ, and we have the punch one as plural for JP. if we have "coconut upper" then we should have "coconut punch" as the JP name also.Marcusbwfc (talk) 07:48, July 12, 2020 (UTC)
 * "Coconut" is the standard translation. It looks like "Coconuts Punch" is only romanized that way because of Battle, otherwise we'd treat it as having the normal translation. However, I'm not too fussed if they're both Coconuts. 12:37, July 13, 2020 (UTC)
 * battle is Korean, how does that effect the Japanese?Marcusbwfc (talk) 13:28, July 13, 2020 (UTC)
 * What I mean is that without the Digimon Battle translation, we would have just assumed the JP attack was "Coconut Punch". 14:37, July 13, 2020 (UTC)
 * The official subs for Adventure: use Coconut Upper. 14:48, July 13, 2020 (UTC)
 * If it matters, I was basing the attack name on the subtitles. Chimera-gui (talk) 16:34, July 13, 2020 (UTC)
 * I still don't understand what battle has to do with the JP nameMarcusbwfc (talk) 02:09, July 14, 2020 (UTC)
 * You're using "Coconuts" as the JP name for Coconut Upper even though the attack you're basing this translation on is only romanized as "Coconuts Punch" in Battle, otherwise the attack name would've been assumed to be "Coconut Punch". Chimera-gui (talk) 02:43, July 14, 2020 (UTC)
 * And battle is a korean/english game, not japanese. coconut punch isnt exclusive to the battle its from this card. so if theres a romanisation from battle, its a korean romanisation, not a japanese romanisationMarcusbwfc (talk) 04:04, July 14, 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm not arguing for it, I'm explaining why it was done that way. Neither translation is incorrect, and one of them is phonetically closer to the katakana. 13:21, July 14, 2020 (UTC)
 * I just think we should try to be consistent with both. either coconut for both or coconuts for both.Marcusbwfc (talk) 01:05, July 15, 2020 (UTC)
 * I would take any translation from Wikimon that isn't from an official source with a grain of salt since they have a known habit of ignoring official translations. I feel like we should use Coconut since that comes from the official subtitles. Chimera-gui (talk) 03:42, July 15, 2020 (UTC)
 * Just to make sure we're not raising any bad blood, I'd like to clarify that it's not so much a "habit of ignoring official translations", as an editorial decision to prefer their own translations in certain cases. We ourselves take some editorial decisions, as with choosing which localized name to treat as primary. As far as Coconuts specifically, I'd like to see how the Battle note would be rewritten, since I'm not sure we've had a case of an alternate, valid translation of an attack name before to model it on. Marcus, do you have a suggestion? 12:44, July 15, 2020 (UTC)
 * Well if we decided both were "coconut" without plural it would just be the attack listed as coconut punch without the plural version in brackets and then the ref note saying "this attack is named "coconuts punch in digimon battle". (as card battle has the first localisation of non plural). if we had both as plural thatd be more tough as we apparently have the subtitles for colon saying it non plural (I only knew this attack existed because of the tweet - I didnt see the episode) but that wouldn't be a dub attack name so maybe itd be pluralised coconuts with a ref note saying "the official subtitles for adventure colon spell it as conocut" - since the subtitles dont count as a dub/localised name. I think we have a few instances where we mention alternate subtitle name spellings (magnamon comes to mind)Marcusbwfc (talk) 01:55, July 16, 2020 (UTC)

Better fit
Echinocactus texensis

This one's native to mexico and has the flower in the right location. 13:10, September 17, 2020 (UTC)


 * There are dozens of species of cactus that look like that. Though if you want to be more specific, the spines are the wrong shape and the flower is the wrong color. Unless there's an official source confirming that Togemon was based on a specific species, I don't think it'd be accurate to pick a random one and say it was based on that.DD2nd (talk) 23:48, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * The Design sections, unless sourced, are not based on explicit statements. Their intent is to give a reader a visual picture of the topic, and it's longstanding tradition that we specify species in the link when applicable, for a variety of reasons. 12:22, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Like what reason? And why is a link necessary then? I don't think cactus are esoteric enough that you need to provide a link to show what you're talking about. My problem is that the common reader will look at this article and think to themselves "Togemon is based on Echinocactus texensis", which is not based on fact at all and just completely random.DD2nd (talk) 16:35, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Off the top of my head, at least one of them is that, by their nature, links to specific species on wikispecies are more stable than links to generic names on wikipedia. Links are necessary because, while you may be very familiar with cacti, not everyone is. Secondly, as I said above, the design sections are not presented ascanon descriptions from Bandai, they're fan-written summaries to try to communicate the basic appearance. That species communicates the appearance best. 20:58, 5 December 2020 (UTC)